In wanting sahd dh to get a job

[witcheshats]

So today dh and I have been discussing our plans for 2018. He has been a sahd since we had dc (youngest now 5 and eldest 7) mainly because he had no career and I did.

When we first married he had some regular work to do with foreign students and it was regular and quite well-paid. He earned about 18k working about 4 non-consecutive months, so that on top of my salary (teacher) was great, and it mainly took place in school holidays so we had no childcare to pay as family helped out for the few weeks when it didn't. I thought this a near-perfect arrangement but he often moaned that he hated the work (boring apparently) and the people were so dull and conventional (unlike his stoner musician mates) and we could never have a holiday - we can't really afford one anyway.

Over the years, the work has fallen away and for the past two years he hasn't worked at all. I believe he had some sort of fall-out with his boss but I'm not really sure what happened. He thinks he's been treated unfairly, I think he may have antagonised her and done something wrong, but obviously will never really know.

I said nothing about his lack of work initially because it kind of fell away gradually and anyway he was at home with the dc. However, they are now both at school so I would like it if he started earning. We haven't discussed it much, but whenever we do he gets very defensive and says I don't care about him, want to see him stacking shelves etc etc. He has no real qualifications, aside from in the very specific field he appears to have cut himself off from, so I suppose he is quite limited in what he could go for, but that isn't my fault.

He is writing a book, has been for years, has had a few articles published in local magazines, plays in a band etc etc and I know he wants to expand all of that stuff, but meanwhile I am left with sole responsibility for bringing in money.

Anyway, today he revealed he has no intention of 'wasting time' on a 'shitty' job this year and instead would like to do a masters degree in creative writing. Obviously, this would have to be paid for out of my salary. I am devastated and just feel so lost and helpless. When I said I wasn't sure he got angry and said he would support me in anything I wanted to do, but that has a hollow ring to it somehow. He's now up in the attic and his fucking music is on and I'm pissed off.

If it's relevant and so as not to dripfeed, he is a good sahd and has done a fair bit with the dc in terms of playgroups etc, and he also loves cooking and does a lot from scratch - I rarely cook. He does most day to day cleaning/laundry and I do very little, though I pretty much take over with the dc when I'm home. I would obviously do more if he worked. He also has MS, though is not impaired by it atm and hasn't had an attack for three years.

AIBU or is he?

I personally think that some dads (not all) use being a sahp as a way to avoid accountability in the real world, in a way that women generally don't. I'm sorry if that makes me sexist.

Sorry but I think that is a little bit sexist. Some women become SAHMs as a way of getting out of the workplace too.

There was a thread where the woman had been a sahp and wanted to do a creative writing MA a few years back. She certainly did not get the unconditional support a lot of posters are asserting would be forthcoming if the genders were reversed.

Anyway OP, my views:

1. You still have credit card debt from ML when the child is 5? Oof. How bad is it?

1. Realistically, is there work that could be fit round childcare locally or, if not, that would not leave you worse off after childcare is paid? If he's out of the loop in his old work, that likely reduces options. Yes I know joint expense blah blah, but if you want him to work for financial reasons you do need to know if it'll make you richer. In addition, are you willing to take on more childcare yourself?

1. How do you feel about finding re training in general, not just this course? I tend to agree that while a creative writing MA might be incredibly valuable for learning and personal development sake, it's a rather unaffordable luxury at the moment. But you know him- would he actually manage to complete a course that would lead to employment but not be his dream?

You’ll get scant sensible response because of the gender.hes a man

This is such nonsense. There has been plenty of threads from women whose husbands want them to work or husbands who wants the wife to work and the responses are the exact same "get a job",

In fact there are even numerous threads about being a stay at home mum where people are adamant you're just unemployed and have no right to call yourself that. It's one of the most contentious subjects on here.

So yes, gender is totally irrelevant, do so search and have a read, because there have been plenty of threads where it was the other gender and the responses are always the same.

Having him continue to be a SAHP during the school years will be a benefit. He'll be able to do all the drop-offs, pick-ups, cover inset days, holidays and sick days, he can take them to after-school clubs, go to the assemblies / sports days / school trips AND reasonably be expected to do the majority of the housework.

My OH and I both work, and have to juggle all of those things between us. I'm sure our careers suffer a bit as a result of having to leave work each day at a certain time, or sometimes taking a day's leave at short notice for illness etc. So having a SAHP is much more useful than is being made out on this thread.

OP, I would look at your finances. You say you still have some debt, so it sounds as if your incomings aren't much more than your outgoings (otherwise you'd have been able to pay it off already)? I think your OP needs to make a convincing argument that this course will lead to improved finances at the end of it. He should demonstrate he has the staying power to finish off the book he's been working on for 3 years. That'll give you (as a family) time to pay off your debts, and perhaps after that he could do his course?

I agree. Even if he hasn't had a relapse for three years it doesn't mean his MS isn't progressing. Also, it is likely that he will not have much energy as someone without MS and this will make the prospect of a job quite daunting.*

Exactly. I think an awful lot of people on here either don't have much experience of MS or are confusing it with ME.

He's going to be extremely limited in what he can do with MS without taking the risk of pushing himself so far he ends up progressing the MS to a point where he ends up with a permanent disability. As others have mentioned due to the unpredictability of MS it is perfectly possible in a few years he will be in a wheelchair rapidly and permanently losing function.

I wonder how many posters would still be so determined to push him into work when they realised that £8 an hour would be possibly leaving him with a permanent disability which would never go away and leave him totally unable to work or help at home? And how much of the not working full time has been at the root of him not having a relapse for 3 years?

OP, I think you may be thinking of this the wrong way around. You're thinking about him as a SAHD primarily and the MS is a secondary very minor point to you. You need to start thinking of him as a person with MS first.

You seem quite dismissive of it as he hasn't had a bad relapse in a while almost to the point of being in denial. It hasn't gone away and still needs to be your primary concern and not an afterthought.

I have a family member in the very advanced stages and you really need to start facing up to what's in the future here for you. And how his prognosis can be improved. Often this doesn't include work.

Exactly. I think an awful lot of people on here either don't have much experience of MS or are confusing it with ME

I think you're making an assumption which you should not be making as you don't know the people posting.

In fact I do have experience of ms, as I have a cousin with it, who trained as a nurse and is actively employed . There are two types from what she told me, one is progressive the other more unpredictable with attacks, it looks like the ops husband has the latter.

I think you do the op a terrible disservice to suggest she's pushing her husband to work when his health won't take it and I'd suggest you have your Post removed. I understand you just wish to attack the other posters for whatever reason, but it's the op herself, who knows his health condition, who is saying he can work.

I agree that there are double standards as while SAHM whose children have recently started school are usually encouraged get a job, they are not called “selfish” or “(wo)man-child” or to “grow up” or leeches. There is also more recognition that it is hard to find work during school hours and there is often criticism of the DH for not recognising how the SAHM has saved nursery fees and enabled his career by being at home when the children were preschool age.

At first glance, a career in creative writing does not seem very realistic but I can see where he is coming from to some extent. As he has MS he really needs to aim for a career that is mainly sedentary and preferably quite flexible. While a “shitty job” may bring in an income in the short term, as soon as he has a relapse or becomes less mobile in any way, he will lose the job and probably won’t get another one. He needs to train to do something which will provide income in the future even if he becomes disabled, not only for his family but for his own self-esteem.

In fact I do have experience of ms, as I have a cousin with it, who trained as a nurse and is actively employed . There are two types from what she told me, one is progressive the other more unpredictable with attacks, it looks like the ops husband has the latter.

I don't think that having a cousin with MS gives you much insight actually. MS is usually progressive eventually for most people, even if it starts with relapses and remissions. If OP's husband has had it for some years, the relapses will probably have had some permanent effects plus it is likely that he experiences fatigue.

I don't think that having a cousin with MS gives you much insight actually

Omg, could you get more offensive? . You have no idea about me, how close I am to her, or the op and her husband.

Stop making out you're the only one with any knowledge and deriding other posters, you have no idea who they are or their knowledge base/experience.

I think the same whatever the gender. A SAHP with kids below school age is doing a valuable job, contributing equally to the household on a par with the working parent. A SAHP with kids at school and not attempting to find work is living off their partner, being lazy and not making the same contribution as the working partner.

The husband in this scenario has made a good contribution and has been a great SAHD according to the OP, so people should stop saying that he has been lazy up to this point. However, now that the kids are in school, he should be at least trying to find work. Doing housework when kids are at school is not a full-time job.

Stop making out you're the only one with any knowledge and deriding other posters, you have no idea who they are or their knowledge base/experience.

I am not suggesting that I am the only one with any knowledge of MS. I am certain I have more knowledge than you though considering what you have said so far.

There are two types from what she told me, one is progressive the other more unpredictable with attacks

Well that sentance alone suggests you know jack shit about ms Bluntness so I'm with Roomster on this. Ms can progress faster or slower but it is very much a one way street as the demyelination of the nerve sheaths can never by fully reversed (some new myelin can form but it's not as thick or strong as the original).

There are two types from what she told me, one is progressive the other more unpredictable with attacks, it looks like the ops husband has the latter.

Yes, but what you clearly DON'T understand is that you can never really be sure which type you have. Or that one type can turn into another. It's incredibly unpredictable. Nobody can ever say for certain that someone with MS only has relapsing and remitting or that they will stay that way.

Your cousin may have made the decision that she wants to take the risk, that is not the case for everybody. I'm extremely surprised she would continue to work as a nurse having experience of the devastating effect infection can have on someone with MS. Surprised to the point of disbelief if I'm honest.

Many people choose not to take that risk because turning into a husk of a person immobile and shaking in constant pain isn't a risk they want to take. Particularly in exchange for a boring low paid job they don't want to do in the first place.

It's quite clear from what you're saying that you have no real insight into MS or how it progresses and your protestations that you do are making you look increasingly silly.

X post barbarian, but you said what I wanted to better.

How can he do a Masters if he didn't complete his first degree? I'm not sure he'd be accepted.

I'd love to do a Masters in Law, but a) I can't afford the year off work (and it's too much to do while working) and b) I can't justify the £14k fee. I don't want to take out a loan as I have no debts at all and want to stay that way.
In his case, I guess he'd not be paying it back any time soon if at all.

Sadly for me I don't have anyone else to support me to 'follow my dream'!

Bluntness Your cousin has told you wrong. You know one person with MS and you clearly don’t know as much as you think.

OP’s husband could be lazy and a day dreamer but having MS can also affect your cognitive state, including your mood and motivation. It could be either or a combination of both.

He’s an unfortunate mix of arrogant, lazy, entitled and manipulative.

I’ve found a creative writing course for him on futurelearn.com. It’s free (£42 if he wants to upgrade and print out a certificate at the end) and is 8 weeks for 3 hours a week.

Plenty of time to get going with a job as well. Starts in March.

Honestly OP I couldn’t put up with this. What if you said to him you were also fed up of your shitty job and wanted a year off to do a course. What would he say? Actually I know what he’d say, he would just advise getting into more and more debt.

Regarding his MS, I admit I probably do minimise its impact a bit and I know it does have an impact on his thinking about this issue. However, he has never worked in a longterm job, and that attitude began long before his diagnosis, so that colours my thinking too.

His sister has MS, far more advanced than his, and has worked throughout in a sedentary but 'ordinary' job. She has struggled a bit but is able to work freelance and has built up a client base of people who will go back to her once any relapse is over. She can also do distance stuff that she can dip in and out of. I work with a teacher with MS who has no intention of stopping anytime soon despite some impairments, and one of dh's bosses from the place he left in mysterious circumstances had it and continued to work. In fact, for a while she was his 'Messiah', with him going on and on about how it was the ideal job for him with his MS as it wasn't physically taxing and it was short term recurring contracts - so if he couldn't do one due to a relapse, they would still invite him back for the next, (happened a twice while he was with them) so it was ideal. That is partly why I'm annoyed he has let it go.

I know his MS is an issue, but I honestly don't think it gives him the right to piss family finances up the wall, especially as he may be unable to work at all in the future. It scares me.

Today he is barely speaking to me or the dc and has headphones on on the PC. Great.

He sounds like he’s 13.

Also, reading back OP's early posts, this is a man who thinks he's better than other people, too 'special' to do an ordinary job. A person with a progressive illness can still be a selfish, entitled asshat.

witcheshats I agree with you that he should work as do most posters. I just don't think the MS is "neither here nor there" because he hasn't had a relapse for a while as suggested by some posters and implied earlier on by you. His future career requires some careful consideration and he can't just take any job as some posters seem to think. I realise from your latest post that you know this too but not all posters do so a lot of the advice you have been given is very unfair to your DH.
Incidentally, I'm sure that another poster was in exactly the same situation as you years ago although her children would now be older than yours so it must be a very strange coincidence...

I would be pretty fucked off he'd let a gig like that go, tbh. Do you actually know why, is it something that could be discussed?

witches I do wonder why he hasn’t told you tbh why the other job fell through. Agree re MS, the only two people I’ve known that have it worked as much and as long as they could and if anything, over achieved on that front as they knew there would be many times when they couldn’t work.

It sounds to me as though you need to consider your options.

witches I do wonder why he hasn’t told you tbh why the other job fell through. Agree re MS, the only two people I’ve known that have it worked as much and as long as they could and if anything, over achieved on that front as they knew there would be many times when they couldn’t work.

If the OP is the person I think she is (it would be a very strange coincidence if not) she and her "d"h weren't together at the time and were getting a divorce. I suspect that she is asking if her ex should work...