In wanting DH to put career on hold to care for DS rather than go FT at nursery?

[IndieRar]

Bit of background: I run my own company and work full time. DH is employed full time, we have similar income but mine slightly more. DH took 7 months parental leave to care for DS and loved every moment, after I went back to work when he was 12 weeks old. DS is 12 months old now.

Since his return to work, DH had been doing longer days and not working Fridays so DS only in nursery four days a week. But he has to work longer days and over the weekend to make up the contracted hours.

We're considering putting DS in Nursery five days a week as DH can't go on doing compressed hours and thinks his career will suffer if he goes down to four contracted days.

I wouldn't entertain the idea of dropping a day as it's my company and I really enjoy it. But then selfishly I don't want DS to be in Nursery full time either and want DH to drop a day or half a day. He doesn't particularly like his job but he doesn't want to be at a disadvantage for promotion if he's seen as part time (even though 30 hours is still considered full time).

We don't know anyone else whose child is in nursery full time, nor any couples where the dad was/is the main career on parental leave and considering reducing hours. Nor are there any senior people in his company on reduced hours (or many women for that matter).

Although FT nursery is fairly financially crippling, it's not a huge leap in cost from 4 to 5 days so not really a deciding factor. It's a very long day for him though and may mean that he ends up wanting his key worker more than us if he's there more! He really enjoys Nursery and is thriving but is exhausted at the end of his four days. I can't work from home as it's not the kind of thing I can do from home and look after DS at same time.

Do/did any of you have little ones at Nursery full time and would you do it again? Has anyone got any advice for me? Am I being massively selfish in wanting DH to step back in his career to look after DS one day a week? AIBU in wanting DS to only be in four days when I'm not prepared to reduce my own hours? WWYD and why?

Thanks Mumsnet for any wise insight you can offer into my conundrum. Sorry for the really long post!

Yet should a woman want a FT career and a family, there are always people jumping in with comments about “why bother having a baby” or “the poor child stuck in a Nursery”
People don't make those comments if the dad works part time or is a sahd though.

I have seen the “why bother having a baby” comment on here many times over the past 10 years referring to women who work FT irrespective of who is caring for the baby during this time. I’ve also had it in real life, including the “but children need their mums more than their dads” or “when they’re ill, it’s their mum they want” etc etc. If you haven’t experienced this ingrained sexism towards mothers then you are very lucky.

Also in all the years we have had DC (nearly 10) I don’t think my DH has ever once been asked why he bothered having children or whether he was concerned about the number of days that they were in Nursery. People were too busy singing his praises because he does 50% of the drop offs and pick ups.

Ok. I've only seen it on mumsnet when both parents work ft. Must have been on different threads from you.

Have you been asked why you bothered having kids then? I'd cut those people out of your life tbh

Surely feminism isn’t women becoming as selfish as men? I have no desire to emulate men, particularly in the way they so often treat their children.

I have no wish to emulate selfish men either. This is why DH and I both share childcare responsibilities 50:50 so that we both get to spend time with the DC and progress our careers.

I have seen a few comments on this thread alone asking why the OP wants to work so many hours and why did she bother having a baby. But maybe I am misreading it.

I don’t lump all men together, so I certainly don’t have a desire to emulate ‘men.’ I don’t lump all women together either. There are good, bad, selfish and unselfish people.
Many women and men have similar aspirations- they want to live a happy, balanced life, and don’t want to be pigeonholed into conforming to a stereotype.

I partnered a man who sees me as his equal, and vice versa. We’re both capable of looking after children and home, and both capable of having successful work lives outside the home. The only significant difference about the early years was that I dropped to 3 days work for a short while. However, this was in a different context - over 20 years ago, so dh didn’t even get paternity leave. If we were having kids now, I’d use the shared parental leave that’s available, as I think that’s great for both partners and the child. If dh had felt strongly about wanting more time at home, then we’d have compromised on that- probably both worked 4 days.

It’s not about either gender emulating the other- it’s about recognising that first and foremost we are adults with not dissimilar wants and needs out of life.

My kids are 21 and 18 now.
Both went ft into nursery. Would I do it again if I had my time? Absolutely!
Your child will not prefer you to the key worker at all.
I understand that is a worry and it was one of ours as well. I remember being nervous the night before DS1 went full time and didn't sleep well. He loved it. He made a group of friends and they went to the same primary and secondary school and these days they play for the same football team and drink in the same pubs!!
Going to nursery will not affect your relationship. It's what you do when you are ogether that counts.We are very close to our sons, we socialise together, spend time enjoying each other's company etc.

All the PPs saying their child "thrived" in full-time nursery - I would ask, how do you know they "thrived", as opposed to "survived" and got on with it? The point is, they had no choice or other experiences to compare it to. They had no concept of being at home with mum / dad as the default. There was no possibility of comparison.

Of course they grow up to be normal adults, but that's not really the point. Children are highly adaptable when they have to be, we all know this. However, nurseries are institutions whichever way you look at it and 5 days a week, 10 hours a day, is a lot of time for anyone (adult or child) to be spending anywhere. 50 hours a week would be exhausting for an adult. It's the same thing day after day, same noise, same structured activities, same routines, same kids etc. A child can adapt to this yes, but whether it's ideal is another matter.

"Your child will not prefer you to the key worker at all.".
Not reassuring!

Capella- maybe you just need to trust other parents instincts when it comes to their own children.

All the PPs saying their child "thrived" in full-time nursery - I would ask, how do you know they "thrived", as opposed to "survived" and got on with it? The point is, they had no choice or other experiences to compare it to. They had no concept of being at home with mum / dad as the default. There was no possibility of comparison

Ok I would say they thirived* because they looked forward to going, we never once had tears or any upset so it wasn't like they were just getting through the day.
There was time for naps so it wasn't like they were exhausted all the times. They made a great circle of friends, a group of people that we wouldnt have met otherwise, there social circle would have been severely restricted. They had lots of trips out with their friends to places like the seaside, castles and picnics out in the summer Sure we took them to these places but they had just as much fun with their friends.
They would come home most days chattering about things they did and who they played with. The nursery had far more resources than we did and kept their imaginations vivid and exciting.
If we had any doubts about the kids not thriving or us not feeling 100% with the nursery we would have looked at reduced hours at work but it would have a hugely negative impact on us at a time where we're already struggling ( our business was about to go under and did eventually and we were struggling to keep the house) one thing that kept us sane was that the kids were happy.
I have no regrets but I know haters of any form of childcare will always hate and judge negatively. Quite frankly I don't care about those people, I was happy that my children were happy.

“He does say he gets a bit envious of the key workers spending so much time having fun with DS and that he misses it.”

I find it strange that he is insisting on working full time in a job he doesn’t even enjoy when he loved parental leave and misses it.

Obviously it’s his choice and he’s entitled to change his mind, but I am curious about his thought process.

I enjoy my job most of the time, and found maternity leave pretty boring and lonely a lot of the time, but I’m still happy working part time so I have a balance between work and time with DS.

Obviously everyone is different and does what works for them, and that’s great, but I’m struggling to work out where he’s coming from with this.

In your specific situation I think you should both do a 9-day fortnight or 4.5 day week. I don’t see how that would have a significant negative impact on your careers or business.

Would he maybe consider going from 37.5 hours a week over 5 days to 32 hours a week over 4 days, for example? Or is it completely off the table?

Yanbu to suggest it, but yabu to push it if DH has said no.

DD is usually in nursery 3 days asi now work part time. I did a stint of full time pre-Christmas where she temporarily went up to 5 days. It knocked her for 6 - she was exhausted and crying for us both, which is not like her.

however, every child is different nd your Ds May be fine on 5 days.

I'm a Child Psych and for years was involved in direct observation of how babies and young children adapt and develop coping mechanisms in childcare settings. The truth is, some children "thrive" far more than others for all sorts of reasons. In the absence of mum / dad, they all need to find new "attachment objects," or a sense of a secure base from which to explore the world around them. This may be a particular toy, area or adult, but it is a process that's more stressful for some than others. Some become so preoccupied with this that is hampers rather development in other areas. Some children are more adaptable.

It's a bit like boarding school when you're older, some children do thrive, for others it's more a case of survive. Quite often, a nursery-setting is better than being home with a depressed or anxious mother who would rather be elsewhere. It's not clear cut, of course.

I don't personally see this situation as a sexism issue. If op had come on and asked if it was reasonable for her to go back to work, she would have received most full support.

I think the issue in this unique situation is both parties seem to want to wipe their hands of full childcare, and that whilst dh has already done alot of the home care, op isn't willing at all, and that is unusual imo.

There is sexism, and then there is the basic drive and want to nurture your children. I think it's totally different.

I think most parents prefer to trust their own observations of their child, and their own instincts about how their child is faring, rather than ‘research’ will inevitably have a particular agenda, often a stakeholder bias to do with whoever is funding it, or a sample which is too small to draw anything meaningful from.

Of course all children are individuals and some have greater natural resilience, adaptability etc and other less.

As a bit of an aside, nurseries are among the most expensive forms of childcare, so it’s safe to assume that parents making the huge financial commitment would be more than happy to switch to a childminder if they felt a home environment would suit better.

As a parent I couldn’t give a shiny shit about what any ‘psych’ says- I knew my children from birth, I knew when they were thriving and like any good parent, my children came first so decisions were made with their well being as central.

I’m quite comfortable with the fact that other parents might make different decisions. It’s a pity a minority arent.

OP maybe send this article to your partner

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3337272/My-warning-to-parents-is-simple-one-in-five-children-put-into-nursery-early-will-develop-mental-health-problems.html

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/3312722/Nurseries-are-safe-and-secure-but-are-they-bad-for-your-baby.html

I'm sorry but these early years are so important is it really worth it? I don't want to offend anyone but people should know what they are letting themselves in for.

Bingo! The dreadful Steve Biddulph has had a mention!

Sorry to disappoint, but dh and I wanted to Make a good job of raising our boys (and girl!) We didn’t want to line Steve Biddulphs pockets by buying any of his ‘literature’

Had ds1 in full time from 6 months until he started school. Never had a problem with him wanting his key worker more, and neither have any friends.

Wtf?? 1:5 will develop a mental health problem! Look at the stats for who will develop one from the general population. So statistically yes, some of those going to nursery ft will.

Babbitty - I can't possibly comment on your children and I'm the first to say parents have to trust their own instincts. However, I think if you spent a significant period observing a range of children that you had no vested interest in within a full- time nursery setting, your perspectives on the whole issue might shift.

The OP asked for insights from people with similar experiences, but as always these threads get derailed by others with seemingly no experience of this, but an agenda to push. Why does anyone care how anyone else chooses to bring up their DC? If you would personally prefer to spend more time at home, then so be it. Why do you care if others choose or need to do something differently. I personally wouldn’t bring my DC up on a vegan diet, but I wouldn’t jump on a thread asking for experiences with such a diet and proclaim that it was bad for the child and my way was better.

I too think nanny is the way to go here. I don’t think it’s fair for such a young child to be in nursery full time. I understand many people do this but it doesn’t make it right.

There is no way I would have a child to spend only two days a week with it. Why bother?

I have an 18 month old and work two short days a week and she is left with family (my husband one day).