Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that Ian Huntley is most definitely not a woman?

525 replies

ATeardropExplodes · 28/12/2017 17:09

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/15/call-lian-child-killer-ian-huntley-has-told-inmates-call-feminine/

If anyone has any evidence to convince me otherwise please do enlighten me, thanks in advance.

OP posts:
SmileEachDay · 29/12/2017 10:08

It’s true, Datun - I think some are so committed to their position of being liberal and inclusive that they can’t show common sense - because as soon as you prick a tiny hole in this stuff the whole ideology implodes.

Original poster
ATeardropExplodes · 29/12/2017 10:10

I think OP knows better than to openly suggest anything like that overtly in the current climate

Can you just clarify what you think I would know better than to suggest please?

OP posts:
SmileEachDay · 29/12/2017 10:16

Teardrop

Stop being so facty and reasoned. It makes the koolaid taste funny.

JaneEyre70 · 29/12/2017 10:18

He's a man who thinks he is being clever by declaring himself a woman and being able to change his prison environment. I feel horribly sorry for the women who will subsequently have to share a prison space with him.

A man can wear lipstick, eyeshadow and a dress all he wants but his chromosomes will still be XY therefore he is a man dressed as a woman.

Datun · 29/12/2017 10:19

- I think some are so committed to their position of being liberal and inclusive that they can’t show common sense

I don't think it's men being liberal. It's men being sexist. And delighted that they can, miraculously, polish their 'liberal' credentials at the same time.

It's a gift.

SmileEachDay · 29/12/2017 10:24

Agreed Datun - for men it’s a convenient hook to hang the usual attitude on.

Women though? Liberal niceness or internalised misogyny?

elfieonshelfie · 29/12/2017 10:28

He shouldn't have any rights! I fact I don't think he should have a name full stop!

I dont even think he should have a life or have a right to do anything at all!

Murdering scum bag! Should be burnt at the stake!

Datun · 29/12/2017 10:30

Women though? Liberal niceness or internalised misogyny?

The former wise up pretty quickly. The latter not so much.

IMightMentionGriddlebone · 29/12/2017 10:46

Not this again. The dispute with anorexics is over whether their body is physically what they believe it to be. They attach the same physical meaning to the word fat as the rest of us, but are incorrect in thinking that this meaning applies to them. This can even be objectively tested.

You are right that some sufferers incorrectly think they are fat. This is the form of anorexia that has become most famous. However, anorexia, like all mental illnesses, is far more complex than can be explained in TV documentaries, and it does manifest that sufferers aren't actually deluded about their physical health and appearance, but have very incorrect idea of what 'fat' means.

I think it's a very good analogy, actually.

JAPAB · 29/12/2017 11:14

Maryz This is ridiculous. The op is simply stating that one fact is possible, the other is not. No mention of gender at all.

Yes but they were responding to me saying that I would take someone's claimed GENDER on faith, just as I would their claimed sexuality.

They responded to my comments on gender to basically explain that while you CAN be gay, you CANNOT change sex. I never said anyone could.

Humpsfor20yards I find it really sweet that you just read the op and thought 'oh ian Huntley identifies as a woman, I'd better call him a she'

I didn't think in terms of I'd better call HIM a she. I thought I'd call HER a she.

Humpsfor20yards · 29/12/2017 11:16

I didn't think in terms of I'd better call HIM a she. I thought I'd call HER a she

Grin
Datun · 29/12/2017 11:17

Well quite.

Since transwomen believe their brain determines their sex.

Not this again. The dispute with anorexics transwomen is over whether their body is physically what they believe it to be. They attach the same physical meaning to the word fat woman as the rest of us, but are incorrect in thinking that this meaning applies to them. This can even be objectively tested.

JAPAB · 29/12/2017 11:38

IMightMentionGriddlebone am I wrong in thinking that even in those alternative forms of anorexia, the patient still sees their body in a way that most of the rest of us wouldn't?

So they are doing something akin to the person who sees themselves as "ugly" when 99% of people would consider them good-looking or at least perfectly normal?

If so then we are still in the realm of people seeing their body as something it isn;t. Or at least by any "normal" standard of "ugly"/"fat"/whatever it isn't. Even if this time there are not really any objective tests to prove the matter.

And then anorexia in this form is still a qualitatively different type of situation than one of the trans person who believes their body to be exactly what it is, sees it the same as most people would, or as any "normal" standard would have it. They just want it to be different or want a word to be redefined to include their body.

Original poster
ATeardropExplodes · 29/12/2017 11:39

I didn't think in terms of I'd better call HIM a she. I thought I'd call HER a she.

But it is Ian Huntley. Male, murderer and rapist. What makes you forget those facts and think 'she' just because some random person on a random thread said so? I could have been making it up. What was your thought process that got to typing 'she'?

OP posts:
Maryz · 29/12/2017 11:41

So, JAPAB, if IH claims he is a woman, you say he is? You are happy to accept his "gender" on faith.

I presume it then follows that he should be treated as a woman? Called she/her. Moved to a female prison?

As a matter of interest, do you think that there should be any women's spaces based on sex, or should they be (as they currently seem to be) based on imaginary gender? What about sports? A man says he's a woman, you are happy to accept that in good faith, he can beat the shit out of women in a boxing ring. That's where your logic goes.

SmileEachDay · 29/12/2017 11:43

want a word to be redefined to include their body.

Yeah? Well the word woman isn’t up for grabs. It’s already being used, it has a definition and that definition does not include men - why the actual fuck should women move over and invite the class responsible for their oppression into the very definition of who we are? Why would we set fire to the platform in which we stand in order to protect our rights?

No. I don’t consent to that.

Humpsfor20yards · 29/12/2017 11:45

Yes, Japab has says: I'll take such things on faith.

So Japab heard Ian Huntley wants to be a female/unicorn/multi-millionaire/free/paraolympian/grandmaofsix/nigerianprince/etc etc and so now he genuinely believes that this is what Huntley is and should be treated as such. Facts don't come into it. Faith does.

SimonBridges · 29/12/2017 11:46

And IH can just announce that they are female so you will roll over and use a female pronouns.

I am actually a Lady and I would like you all to call me Lady Bridges please. You will need to take that on faith. No I don’t need to get the documents to prove it, my say so should be enough.

Original poster
ATeardropExplodes · 29/12/2017 11:48

So Japab heard Ian Huntley wants to be a female

How about if Huntley identifies as a non-murderer, non-rapist? Take it on faith, let him loose on the world. Yay. At least nobody felt psychological distress...oh hang on...

OP posts:
IMightMentionGriddlebone · 29/12/2017 11:51

am I wrong in thinking that even in those alternative forms of anorexia, the patient still sees their body in a way that most of the rest of us wouldn't?

In some manifestations, yes.

As I said before, I think it's a very good analogy, and you did the other user a disservice in trying to pick it apart.

lessworriedaboutthecat · 29/12/2017 11:53

I think Ian Huntley should be grateful that the Prison Service remember to fed him and STFU.

Humpsfor20yards · 29/12/2017 11:55

Japab, the earth is flat. Take it on faith.

Datun · 29/12/2017 12:03

Surely anorexics don't actually hallucinate though? They see creases in their skin and interpret them as fat.

The same way a TRA will have you interpret his penis as a female organ.

He doesn't actually see anything different to anyone else.

MsBeaujangles · 29/12/2017 12:10

Many of the anorexic people I work with know that their BMI is dangerously (often morbidly) low. They hate the sight of their bodies and recognise that they look disturbingly thin. However, they feel ‘fat’ and greedy whenever they eat. In this respect there is some overlap with GNC people with dysphoria. Being presented with objective facts does not touch the sides in relation to alleviating symptoms.
The are plenty of GNC people who do not experience any dysphoric symptoms. There difficulties relate to society not being accepting of their chosen gender presentation.
Many posters, me included, work hard to reduce the limitations that gender stereotyping has on people in society and therefore kick against notions of treating anyone ‘like a woman’. This approach is far from an ‘anti trans’ one and is hugely helpful to all those who have non binary gender identities.

JAPAB · 29/12/2017 12:58

IMightMentionGriddlebone As I said before, I think it's a very good analogy, and you did the other user a disservice in trying to pick it apart.

Diservice or not, I just don't see what one thing usefully tells us about the other. Someone thinking their body is physically different than it actually is, or who thinks a subjective notion applies to their body when by most people's standards that subjective notion does not apply, is just too different IMO to situations where someone knows exactly what their physical body is but want it to be dfferent.

Humpsfor20yards Japab, the earth is flat. Take it on faith.

That statement refers to a physical property that can be objectively verified. When someone tells me about an "inner state" - whether that is their gender, their sexuality, whether they are a Christian, a Libertarian, a feminist, like Jazz, hate the smell of paint, etc etc - then I will take these claims on faith unless I have a reason not to.

Maryz yes I think there are spaces that should be sex-segregated. Depends on the space and what the reasons for the split are.