to think that Ian Huntley is most definitely not a woman?

[ATeardropExplodes]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/15/call-lian-child-killer-ian-huntley-has-told-inmates-call-feminine/

If anyone has any evidence to convince me otherwise please do enlighten me, thanks in advance.

You know my question above - can someone post it on every thread that JAPAB appears on, please, since he doesn't seem to be able to see my posts any more.

I wonder has he hidden me?

I wonder whether MN suddenly has a hide poster option?

Sorry... did someone post? Sudden draft here...

CuriousaboutSamphire I don't recognise most of that.

You then nagged on about it being about wearing or not wearing a dress

Huh?

You haven't engaged in much of a 2-way exchange, except for trying to prove a point with me. You have discussed virtually nothing.

Not really a lot one can do about 2-way discussions when people make a point, you make a point, then they do not continue with it. Like asking me how I think babies are made, I explain. Then nothing.
Asking me about who I think needs cervical screening, I explain, then nothing.
I post a rebuttal to someone's notion that "Saying that women are adult females who were born with vaginas and not penises is not ‘ideology’ it’s actual fact. Cold, hard, scientific fact." They do not respond.
I post a rebuttal to someone drawing an analogy between anorexia and transgenderism. OK they do respond, but not with counter points, just to tell me I am doing a disservice with my arguments against it.

I am sure that you will find a way to make it my fault for supposedly patronising people or somesuch :)

I am not going to criticise people for not continuing BTW. It is a free country to not engage with specific points you do not wish to.

And this reminds me why I resist personalisation. This really is time-wasting that has nothing to do with anything related to trans issues or arguments.

Happy new year everyone!

My question JAPAB?

Two way discussions should go two ways. It involves posters listening to other people's arguments. And then, usually, replying.

Maryz, Two way discussions should go two ways. It involves posters listening to other people's arguments. And then, usually, replying.

I agree. But it is also a free country to not continue with someone if you do not wish to. That is why I said I would not criticise those who did not respond. No-one is obligated to. Even if others think they can demand it.

What is your definition of woman that includes all women and all transwomen (those men who have declared they are women, whether or not they have a GRC) but excludes men?

I wish just one person crying about the nasty transphobia on here would answer this fucking question! Rather than avoid it and pretend they can't see it.

Teardrop I have had many spectacularly frustrating interactions on Twitter asking that question.

I’d say 50% of people block me immediately, the rest don’t answer and then call me “a fucking TERF” or similar - one especially enlightening person even said “you’re not asking the right question, what you need to ask is why you’re such a fucking cunt”. He was nice.

Still no closer to answer though.

Me too, which is why I am on the TERFblocker list. My proudest moment.

ME TOO Teardrop - what’s your Twitter handle? (I wonder if we “know” each other?)

I cant share on here, you never know who is watching.

Oooh, I'm visible again, yippee.

JAPAB, do you not want to continue discussion with me? That makes me very sad, because all I wanted was a new definition for the word "woman" after you told me:

"The word (woman) only means that because some humans decided that those elements woulds make up the term."

So woman doesn't mean "adult human female" any more. If woman includes transwomen (ie woman includes male persons, born with XY chromosomes and penises), then in your eyes woman means "person", is that right?

Any human is now a woman?

I post a rebuttal to someone's notion that "Saying that women are adult females who were born with vaginas and not penises is not ‘ideology’ it’s actual fact. Cold, hard, scientific fact." They do not respond. That's where the weird stuff stems from, and many posters did respond!

How can you rebut biology with opinion? Especially as you have not yet graced us with your definition of 'woman' or 'female' - other than seemingly seeing both terms as meaning generically human!

If the many posts from many females telling you that is a) incorrect and b) offensive and c) utterly misogynistic, patronising don't make you stop and think for a moment then you are a lost cause!

Oh, I posted that opinion.

It’s fact. There is no need to respond. It’s a fact. It’s like trying to have an opinion on me being shorter than someone or how far it is to Manchester. It doesn’t matter what your opinion is when your opinion is the opposite of facts.
Woman meaning adult human female is not up for debate. As I said it’s not like believing in ghosts or god where no one has proof.
I can state that I have invented a new method of measurement and that using this I am now taller than my husband and that Manchester is closer than it ever was before. But just by changing the numbers I use and making spurious claims it won’t make me taller or somewhere closer.
Just like claiming that woman doesn’t mean adult human female it’s doesnt mean that everyone who fancies it is now a woman.

You can’t just decide that you don’t like the definition of a word and change it.

It’s like me saying ‘I made a really nice omelette yesterday. I got some vegetables and meatballs and cooked them for a bit then mixed them up with some pasta, tomato sauce, put some cheese on top and put it in the oven’.

To which I would expect someone to reply ‘that’s not an omelette, you make an omelette with eggs for a start’

In this way of redefining words I could just counter that with ‘yes my dish might have meatballs and pasta, and not have any eggs but the word omelette has now changed to include all foods and how they self define’.

So do you see how "The word (woman) only means that because some humans decided that those elements woulds make up the term."
Can be changed to ^"The word (omelette) only means that because some humans decided that those elements woulds make up the term."

Yet if I ordered an omelette and was presented with a steak and chips I would be rather pissed off.

Allow me to carry my food analogy further.

Customer: I’ll have the omelette please.
Waiter brings the omelette
Customer: excuse me, this is pasta and meatballs, I ordered the omelette.
Waiter: yes, this is an omelette.
Customer: no it isn’t. It looks very lovely and I’m sure it’s well made but it’s not what I asked for. Moreover it’s got meatballs. I’m vegetarian I don’t want to eat meat due to my moral objections.
Waiter: that’s not meat. It looks like meat but it’s really a onion .
Customer: no it isn’t. I know an onion when I see one and that isnt an onion.
Waiter: it looks like an onion and it believes itself to be an onion, therefore it’s an onion. I don’t care about your reasons for not wanting to eat meat. You are being a bigot against meat balls.

And if you really don’t get it.

Prisoner in a woman’s prison
Prison guard brings a new cell mate
Prisoner: excuse me, this is a man with a penis and this is a woman’s prions
Guard: yes, this is a man.
Prisoner : no it isn’t. He’s got a penis. I’m a victim of rape and abuse at the hands of men. I don’t want to share with a man due to my traumatic experiences
Guard: that’s not a man. It looks like a man but it’s really a woman
Prisoner : no it isn’t. I know a woman when I see one and that isnt an woman.
Waiter: it looks like a woman and it believes itself to be a woman therefore it’s a woman. I don’t care about your reasons for not wanting to share with a man who is a convicted rapist and murderer. You are being a bigot against meat balls.

Very well explained Simon!

Simon you can share that top spot with Teardrop - that was great, and now I feel hungry.

It's like I am a circle. However I don't like curves so I am going to identify as a square. Or I like my curves, want to stay the same distance away from my centre the whole way round, I just want people to look at me and say 'Hey there square'.

The whole world knows me as a circle, I look like a circle, I am mathematically defined as a circle for as long as there has been maths, but I insist on everyone calling me a square otherwise it is mean. Anyone calling me Circle is automatically dead-shaping me and is a bigot and I will get all my friends to try and get you the sack.

Everyone knows you are a circle you silly circle. Just because a few well meaning shapes feel sorry for you and tell you that you are fine to redefine yourself as a square, doesn't change the fact you are a circle, through and through.

You cannot just change the way the whole world defines a word, because the you want it. It's the whole reason we have words in the first place, to identify certain things.

I have a song running through my head:

Round
Like a circle in a spiral
Like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning
On an ever-spinning reel
Like a snowball down a mountain
Or a carnival balloon
Like a carousel that's turning
Running rings around the moon
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping
Past the minutes of its face
And the world is like an apple
Whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind

And we have our very won Don Quixote, tilting at those windmills in our minds

Stop being so square Curious!

Hey... It's hip to be square

Prisoner in a woman’s prison
Prison guard brings a new cell mate
Prisoner: excuse me, this is a man with a penis and this is a woman’s prions
Guard: yes, this is a woman

Typo correction.

That last (prison) scenario, Simon - have you seen the posts by the person who allocates university dorm rooms?

They have to go on what is put on the form. So the likes of Lily put "Female" on the form and are allocated to a room with another female, who presumably is being transphobic if they object on the grounds that they don't want to share with a man.

I think that's horrific; I really hope universities cop themselves on.

The rest: it gives a new meaning to the phrase "squaring the circle"