to just be appalled and feel utterly powerless

[Misstomrs]

The BBC news today has an article that 1 in 5 births have an incident or near miss that could result in harm (including terminal harm) for a mother or her baby at birth.

My own birth was appalling mis-managed and since then (18 months ago) I have met with the hospital and the University that provided the trainee who was involved in our care and who almost killed our DS. It’s been genuinely draining and traumatic for me to keep going over what happened, but I have because I don’t want anyone else to go through what we did as a family. It was all completely avoidable.

I’m left feeling that maybe it wasn’t worth it. The system just seems so broken. What’s the point?

The lottery of care is one of the main things that puts me off having any more DCs. Both the hospital consultant and Univeristy team were appalled when I explained that to them, but it’s true.

AIBU? And more importantly, what can WE do about it?

I agree with you. I dont know how what is happening to the NHS can be legal. Its desperately underfunded and its being sold off.

Employ more midwifes, When I was in labour they were understaffed. Employ more drs as there was only one dr between everyone he luckily saved my sons life when he got stuck but that was only after a delay in him coming to me as he was with another emergency.
It wont happen though as nhs is underfunded.

Don't vote Tory. The massive issue in the NHS is staff retention, especially since there's not that many people with the qualifications to take the vacant posts. The new shitty contracts that doctors have, and the lack of pay rise in line with inflation for nurses, means that it's only going to get worse.

Additionally, go private if possible. I work in the NHS and maternity is one place I'd rather just spend the money.

I think One Woman One Midwife would make a huge difference. Same person caring for you throughout pregnancy and labour. Someone who you knew and trusted and who knew your history.

At the moment there's no continuity at all and women are scared and labouring alone to a timescale of 1 cm per hour or risk cascade of interventions.

Anecdotally my first and last labours were pretty identical - fast regular progress than stalking due to cervical lip. First time I was in hospital with the same midwife who'd booked me in 24 hours earlier but was now back on shift. Horrible time for all ensued. Permanent physical and mental issues as a result. Last time round I was at home with an independent midwife who had become a friend and was very experienced and willing to wait for my body to catch up. It took longer but I had faith in her. Completely different outcome of natural birth without pain relief - totally unlike the first time.

It’s shocking & I do think we should question more. However the main issue is chronic underfunding.

Have you read This is going to hurt? It's about a Ob/gynae junior doc. It's outrageous what they were expected to deal with

Childbirth will never be 100% incident free. By it's very nature, there will always be morbidity and mortality. Yes, some of it may be avoidable, but some will not. When humans are responsible for other humans, there will always be error in my opinion. To err is human after all. It may not be what you want to hear, but it's the reality.

Yes, more midwives may be the answer, it would certainly help. The holy grail of true continuity of care; one midwife with one woman for the duration. This won't negate all incidents however. I don't feel this is achievable when it comes to childbirth. Adequate staffing would, however, potentially reduce those figures you've quoted.

As a side note, I'd like more detail on that 1 in 5 figure. Where are they getting those statistics from? What quantifies a 'near-miss'?

I think the issue is when incidents happen that could be avoided.

Accidents are always incidents which could be avoided. That's what accidents are. There will always be accidents though. That's reality.

Vote for parties which will increase funding for the NHS.

“Nine mothers died at the Royal Oldham and North Manchester General hospitals, both of which are run by the Pennine Acute Hospitals NHS Trust.”

“Meanwhile, five mothers and four babies died under the care of Portsmouth Hospitals NHS Trust between 2015 and 2017.”

See I think the above & ranking at 24 globally for maternal care should not be the reality & we could vastly improve.

The system just seems so broken.

This. The NHS is broken. Managed by people who only ever work in the NHS, recruit only more managers who have only worked in the NHS and are the same people responsible for the chaos and mismanagement in the first place.

Other organisations move on and improve. The NHS hasn't.

In my area you are meant to have the same midwife all the way through.
I'm 36 weeks and have seen my allocated midwife once.

At first birth I had a young either trainee or newly qualified who was useless. Barely spoke to me, needed to go find someone else for a second opinion for every decision. Told me it was too late for pain relief which was bollocks as another midwife then told her to sort it asap.

Not looking forward to going in again.

They're not saying how they died though. Maternal death is sometimes no-one's 'fault'. Things happen. Maybe they could have been avoided if surgery or transfusions or whatever was needed had happened more quickly (hard to say without knowing what the issue was). If this was the case, then yes, it is a funding issue; staff and infrastructure. However, you will never have 0% mortality.

One problem that really shocked me is that midwives and doctors were not on the same page. IMEW midwives were very pro natural/vaginal birth, while doctors were much more willing to do a C-section.

Now I can see the argument for natural births, but not always. For DC2 I had a section planned, and agreed to by a consultant for really quite serious reasons relating to DC1 birth. I had a huge-headed baby and a lot of anxiety about vaginal exams/interference because of past experience. But when I went into labour just before the planned section, midwives (who I didn't know) pressured me hugely to try for a vaginal birth, saying "we can always use forceps". The same hospital had had a death of a healthy full-term baby just weeks earlier caused by forceps, after the mother begged for and was refused a section.

I had to argue and insist I needed my section very forcefully. If I'd been less bolshy, or not a good English speaker for example, it could have gone very badly indeed.

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding, mistrust and poor communication between midwives and doctors when they should be working together.

I'm not happy about a 2-tier system really, but while things are as bad as they are, I think going private if you can afford it is one way to help, as it does at least free up resources for others.

The NHS is just appalling and needs to be disbanded altogether. These kinds of things shouldn't be happening in a first world country.

The issue is money

Decent healthcare costs. We spend less than most European countries.

And exactly the same happened the last time the Tories were in power

But I think it's also information, education and communication across the system. Yes that costs money, but money on its own can't change the way things are organised.

Campaign for better womens services and maternity staffing.

A private birth costs upwards of £3500 and much, much more if you end up with an unplanned C section. Most people can’t afford that.

Actually, there is more morbidity associated with caesarean sections than vaginal births.

However, you will never have 0% mortality.

Of course, that will never be the case. However why should British woman be 'more than twice as likely to die in pregnancy and childbirth as many European countries'?

Money is a HUGE issue: the primary problem is understaffing and money would help address that.

I think we need to be supportive of each other's complaints. Rather than dismiss them as "accidents". And I am to blame for this problem too.

When I was pregnant with my DD her condition wasn't picked up at the anomaly scan but it should have. They rushed it because of a previous complaint I had made.

After birth I disagreed with the hospitals handling of her care and was accused of lying. My maternity notes were also miss handled and have missing information and also notes that I was obviously not meant to see i.e a midwife describing me as "hysterical" when I was crying.

I didn't speak up because I thought "what's the point?!" But now I know I was wrong. I had a duty to give them feed back but I chicken out on it for a quiet life. It's been two and a half years. I feel like a coward but I doubt they'd consider my feedback now. We need to stop writing off women as difficult/misinformed/in denial etc..