to just be appalled and feel utterly powerless

[Misstomrs]

The BBC news today has an article that 1 in 5 births have an incident or near miss that could result in harm (including terminal harm) for a mother or her baby at birth.

My own birth was appalling mis-managed and since then (18 months ago) I have met with the hospital and the University that provided the trainee who was involved in our care and who almost killed our DS. It’s been genuinely draining and traumatic for me to keep going over what happened, but I have because I don’t want anyone else to go through what we did as a family. It was all completely avoidable.

I’m left feeling that maybe it wasn’t worth it. The system just seems so broken. What’s the point?

The lottery of care is one of the main things that puts me off having any more DCs. Both the hospital consultant and Univeristy team were appalled when I explained that to them, but it’s true.

AIBU? And more importantly, what can WE do about it?

LostMyMojo I said in my comment that all the Pakistani and Indian people I know who are resident here and entitled to free NHS treatment, get asked to prove that. I am not saying only white people try it on. I am saying generally that anyone else trying it on is far less likely to get away with it.
White ex pats do get away with it though as they are far less likely to be asked to prove they are entitled to free NHS treatment. Because they are assumed to be entitled.

The issue is not with NHS funding per se; it is the distribution of the cash that’s wasteful, short sighted, careless and utterly utterly strangled by bureaucratic hoopla.

However, @Flowerpot1234 makes the excellent point that if the organisation stopped sounding cash on Big 4 consultants then it may have a bit more cash to divert to the right places.

These consultants all come back with the same thing anyway; we need new models of care.

In other words, the NHS is no longer fit for purpose. Even the bbc article infers this:

Half of maternity units are currently judged to be not safe enough

That’s just utterly fucking unacceptable.

I agree with lostmojo's post. That was almost my exact experience of giving birth when Labour were in power. The hospital was filthy, the midwives were completely disinterested at best, and yet they were spending money on building a new entrance area.

And just as another POV, my dd has a chronic illness and the treatments she can access have massively increased under a Tory government and so have the number of specialist nurses available in that specific department.

Chucking an endless supply of money at something doesn't automatically solve all the problems. There needs to be accountability in the NHS, at every level.

No we do not need new models of care. You mean privatisation. It is happening and it does not work.

Vote for parties which will increase funding for the NHS.

I totally disagree with this.

Vote for parties that will take the time & effort to investigate the NHS, find out what is wrong & take measures to fix it (which may be money).

If you just throw more money into the pit it'll be absorbed & nothing will change.

No we do not need new models of care. You mean privatisation. It is happening and it does not work.

@crunchymint it’s not as clear as one or t’other...NHS as is OR privatised care etc.

It’s possible to have healthcare provided by the state that is of a quality standard regardless of if you’re wealthy or poor. Look to Germany. Look to Holland. Look to Denmark.

But it’s the idea of contributing financially towards ones OWN care - those who can contribute by the way - that sets the hares running.

This Beveridgian care system model just doesn’t work for the population of the UK in the 21st century. Again, this is an endemic, systemic problem and NOT about privatisation.

The nhs doesnt feel me with terror reborn but I have to say when you are in out of this world pain with your baby stuck inside you and no one to help because the dr wasnt there it was terror, I was extremely frightened and I couldnt cope with the pain I would have happily died as the pain was too extreme just to make the pain stop. I suffered from ptsd afterwards it really effected me, When you are at an extreme level of pain and no one can help you its EXTREMELY frightening, I was begging for help when I could catch my breath and no one could because the dr wasnt there. I cannot tell you the relief when he got my baby out, This was my fourth so I was no stranger to childbirth only ever had gas and air. Awful never again.
There should always be more than one dr for a labour ward. I think that would change things significantly.

Because the funding was higher. And it’s the Tories who have reduced the nhs down to nothing whilst selling some it to private sector.
Not Labour.....

I would completely agree with your points if any of them were correct.

@Chocolate I assume you had a midwife with you? What exactly did the doctor do for you that they couldn't?

ffs rather an invasive and interrogative line of questioning @rebornslippy

@Hermione - have you got the data to support that statement? NHS is funding is higher: www.economicshelp.org/blog/21664/economics/nhs-spending-cuts/

You think so @TheLegend? I don't obviously or I wouldn't have asked. @Chocolate said that she was let down by the system due to a lack of a doctor. I'm trying to establish what the doctor brought to the table that the midwife didn't. Assuming she even had a midwife. It's not clear. Was she, in fact, alone? This would make me view the situation in a different light again.

If you're going to post a post like that, I hardly think a simple question like mine is invasive or interrogative. But, hey, if it's too much for you, feel free to look away if she answers.

It wont happen though as nhs is underfunded.

While true, you could give the NHS a blank cheque and they couldn’t get more staff. There’s a massive shortage in the UK and nobody wants to come here anymore (thanks to Brexit).

Reborn she was totally out of her depth, If you want to know he put his hand up me to get my baby out he had to stretch my cervix out as part of him was stuck on my cervix. As I said he was stuck. I dont know if you know alot about childbirth reborn it doesnt sound like you do but in emergency situations drs are needed. Midwifes are also unable to provide certain pain relief such as an epidural, Drs are very valuable in childbirth and we certainly need more of them.

Its not just cuts to maternity services that are the problem.
Cuts to support services
Cuts to mental health services
Cuts to domestic violence services
Cuts to substance abuse services
Cuts to social services
Cuts to health visiting
Benefits changes
Housing benefit cuts
Zero/Limited hours contracts and poor employment rights.

ALL the above impact on maternal health.
If women reach maternity services and are already undernourished, obese, smoking, drinking, taking drugs, in dangerous relationships, unwell, living a transient/chaotic lifestyle, unable to take time off for antenatal appointments etc maternal and infant mortality will continue to rise.

I also have to say that my midwife did leave the room alot as, as I said they were understaffed.

My first birth 15 years ago was traumatic.

Told I could not give birth on the ward.
Told I had to give birth on ward as no room in labour suit.
Was walked from 1 ward to the other mid labour. Collaped mid contraction while walking and was caught by my mum and DH.
Was put on the edge of the trolly bed as they had no actual beds left which flipped up and i fell off when i had a contraction. Again caught by DH and my mum.

My baby was starved of oxygen for 10 mins. He was 9lb 11oz and apparently in distress for some time.
He has SEN and I know in my heart my birth is the cause.

YANBU

Some of these experiences are dreadful, and have echoes of Mid Staffs. I am horrified by the person accused of stealing their own notes when they were misplaced by the staff!

However, just to pick up on one point. The NHS is the most efficient healthcare system in the world. Healthcare leaders worldwide study it, hoping to improve the cost-effectiveness of their own systems (including plenty of European countries).

The UK still comes way down the list of the proportion of GDP spent on healthcare. With an aging population we need more money in the system, as people are simply living longer with more complex medical problems.

Yeah, I know quite a bit actually @Chocolate as I'm a midwife. And in case you didn't know, it's an anaesthetist who gives an epidural, not an obstetrician. And midwives can also do the manoevre you describe by the way. No doctor necessary but certainly a second pair of hands are required. To assume she was out of her depth, well, I can only take your word for. You were there, not me.

You experienced a difficult traumatic birth. That happens. That is nobody's fault. Neither the doctor or the midwife. That, ladies and gentlemen, is childbirth in all it's glory. Sometimes they come easy, sometimes they don't. No amount of money or staff or anything else can prevent it unfortunately.

But yes, I'm in full agreement that more staff; doctors and midwives would be a good start.

Yes I was there so I Know what happened not you with your condescending manner.
Glad you werent ever my midwife! You have 0 bedside manner.

Women die in childbirth. These are natural complications. Before we got so good at helping women something like a third died.

Now not so many!

There are lots of reasons for problems. Even women having children later in life is more risky.

Well that's me told!

Hi op I had my first dd 10 years ago in 2007. Every single day horror stories were in the media, every single day, midwives begging for mire staff, birth rates going through the roof, local hospitals shutting doors, full. I wrote to my local mp who wrote to the then labour government about it. Some banal reply came back about more midwives. Of course in my area we had one of the biggest surges in immigration ever seen but head counts were recorded as going down not up.
It was a crisis, the horror stories coming out of our local hospital! Women left alone to birth, one mw between x women it was fucking chaos. Women sent miles away in labour to strange hospitals.
It not only new thing at all and a long labour government left the NHS up shit creek. Nowadays a lot decade on we have new birthing suits and it's eased a tiny bit.