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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to just be appalled and feel utterly powerless

229 replies

Misstomrs · 21/12/2017 13:00

The BBC news today has an article that 1 in 5 births have an incident or near miss that could result in harm (including terminal harm) for a mother or her baby at birth.

My own birth was appalling mis-managed and since then (18 months ago) I have met with the hospital and the University that provided the trainee who was involved in our care and who almost killed our DS. It’s been genuinely draining and traumatic for me to keep going over what happened, but I have because I don’t want anyone else to go through what we did as a family. It was all completely avoidable.

I’m left feeling that maybe it wasn’t worth it. The system just seems so broken. What’s the point?

The lottery of care is one of the main things that puts me off having any more DCs. Both the hospital consultant and Univeristy team were appalled when I explained that to them, but it’s true.

AIBU? And more importantly, what can WE do about it?

OP posts:
RatRolyPoly · 21/12/2017 15:24

It's genuinely and utterly terrifying imo. The stats are bad, and that's not even counting all the women left thoroughly traumatised or suffering periods of anxiety or depression as a result of unsatisfactory birth or post-natal experiences. I even know people diagnosed with PTSD following the poorly managed births of their DC.

RebornSlippy · 21/12/2017 15:27

Jesus, it's not as bad as some of you are making out! "Terrifying"? Really?! Giving birth in a mud hut in the middle of nowhere on your own is terrifying. Being in a hospital with staff and drugs and protocols is hardly the stuff of nightmares!

lljkk · 21/12/2017 15:27

(like a lot of stories) I find it completely over-exaggerated.
There's no trend analysis, vast majority of the injuries were very minor and many were freak events or not directly related to birth (like scalding with tea or slipping in the shower afterwards).

Room for improvement, but no need for hype.

Would love more MWs & resources. YES to tax rises.

RebornSlippy · 21/12/2017 15:29

^Indeed @lljkk. I'm still waiting to get some actual data behind this 1 in 5 claim. Does anyone have a link to this article?

RatRolyPoly · 21/12/2017 15:31

Reborn it's the stuff of my nightmares, it actually is. And they're based on things that actually happened. To me. Not in a mud hut which yes, is terrifying to imagine, but is a completely different kettle of fish and totally useless comparison.

ExConstance · 21/12/2017 15:32

I do wonder whether the NHS can continue to be free at the point of use. Surely if there were fees for certain sorts of treatment - not necessarily large fees - this would help? I had DS 1 in a private hospital, it was expensive but you could pay an insurance fee which would pay out if you needed a caesarean. DS2 I had at home with two lovely community midwives in attendance. I would happily have paid a fee for them, maybe if you earn above a certain amount you should pay something extra? Though of course we have all paid through NI contributions already.

RebornSlippy · 21/12/2017 15:35

Fair enough @RatRolyPoly. I guess the lesson here is that one woman's nightmare is another woman's wildest dreams. Depends on your county of origin it seems. Good job you were here, eh? If the NHS fills you with terror, I dread to think what a childbirth in a country like Ethiopia would have done.

Flowerpot1234 · 21/12/2017 15:35

ExConstance

I do wonder whether the NHS can continue to be free at the point of use. Surely if there were fees for certain sorts of treatment - not necessarily large fees - this would help?

Certainly for those who have not paid for the system initially, yes. We should be charging every health tourist who comes and uses our NHS then leaves right now. It's a scandal that we have let the world use our health service for free for so long.

crunchymint · 21/12/2017 15:36

America has the highest rate of maternal death of any developed country and it is linked to very poor pre and post natal care.

LostMyMojoSomewhere · 21/12/2017 15:38

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crunchymint · 21/12/2017 15:38

Migrants already do not get free NHS treatment except A&E and certain communicable diseases. In reality it is white ex pats that get free NHS treatment as health tourists. All the Indian and Pakistani people I know who are residents here but maybe don't speak great English, have to prove that they are allowed free NHS treatment before they get any.

crunchymint · 21/12/2017 15:39

The truth is we need to pay more tax. How can we spend less healthcare than many other countries, and expect a top quality service? You can't.

CJB88 · 21/12/2017 15:41

My mum just linked me to this thread mostly due to my own experience. First time mum at 29 yrs old. Planned a natural birth but during midwife appointments (different one every time!) they told me my boy was big. Ended up having a growth scan at 32 weeks which showed he was above average in size and already approx 7.5 pounds. They sat me down and told me I was high risk of shoulder distocia, likely to need forceps and other forms of help especially as a first time mum. scared the hell out of me basically. I at that point then asked about who I speak to about options when I was told that I wasn’t allowed a c section as ‘there were no risks’. Refused to leave till I had a consultant appointment. Could only give me one at 35 weeks so had to wait and worry about giving birth early without my voice being heard. Ended up having a meeting with a consultant midwife who told me she doesn’t consent to an elective section and to refer myself to a different hospital (at 35 weeks pregnant). Had to wait another 2 weeks for a third consultant appointment where I was again told that ‘scans aren’t accurate but if it changed my mind on the elective section I’ll be allowed another scan at 38 weeks pregnant’ (Which didn’t make sense if they were telling me they couldn’t tell me the size of my boy accurately). In the meantime I had been diagnosed with gestational diabetes and was managing this on medication. Also had anaemia thrown into the mix so my risks were totting up. Finally they agreed to an elective section but told me they couldn’t fit me in till my actual due date. I ended up having to call he theatre nurse on three occasions who then fit me in a week earlier and the rest was history. The operation went smoothly, my baby boy was 9.7 pounds a week early and we are both doing well 5 weeks on. All the consultants achieved was scaring a lone 29 year old girl and then at times trying to bully me into giving birth naturally whilst making me sign that I knew all the ‘risks’ of giving birth to a big baby. I don’t even want to think about what would have happened if I didn’t fight my corner.

Morphene · 21/12/2017 15:42

The rate of PTSD in those who have given birth in the UK exceeds that for people who have returned from the front line in Afganistan.

Though I would be prepared to believe there is potentially more under-reporting in the second group than the already rife under-reporting in the first....

LostMyMojoSomewhere · 21/12/2017 15:43

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lolaflores · 21/12/2017 15:43

Should see all the ex pats in Spain that I met getting free treatment.

Yes indeed, America has an awful mortality rate for women and babies in childbirth. Also literacy, contraception, nutrition.
Don't care what anyone says.
UK is a good system, under pressure but with effort and consideration it can be made fit for purpose. That might mean we need to dig into our pockets to either pay for some of our own treatment but to ensure that there is decent health care for all. As it was meant to be.

crunchymint · 21/12/2017 15:45

I have read lots of research about maternity mortality rate in America. It is not about poor literacy, etc. It is about pre natal and especially post natal care.

Yes as I said it is white ex pats who are the NHS tourists. Crack down on them by all means. They are the ones freely abusing the system.

Aki99 · 21/12/2017 15:49

I saw this and was horrified. Weve been thinking about another one and were lucky with our first. I wonder if there is any way to see where the worst services are. My maternity hospital is ranked one of the highest in the country so I have faith in them

crunchymint · 21/12/2017 15:50

One third of the women who die during maternity in America do so once they are at home, a few days after the birth. Post natal care there is very poor in many places.

TheRottweiler · 21/12/2017 15:53

Don't vote Tory

Seriously?

So the NHS was pretty damn perfect under Labour then?

What an absolutely useless throwaway comment.

LostMyMojoSomewhere · 21/12/2017 15:53

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RebornSlippy · 21/12/2017 15:55

@CJB88 This is one of those situations where the staff are damned if they do and damned if they don't. From what you've described, you sound high risk to me. You had gestational diabetes, I assume you have a high bmi (apologies if I'm wrong) and as a result of this you were carrying a macrasomic baby (although maybe it was just large, but again it was only an estimate at that point).

The midwives/consultants advised you of the risks of these scenarios, which included shoulder dystocia. Would you rather they didn't make you aware? If you had a full awareness of Gestational Diabetes, you would know this was one of the risk factors anyway. They also advised you that you might have needed an instrumental delivery in the event of this happening. Again, it was their duty to make you aware. Risk does not equal certainty. This is why you were not offered a caesarean as a necessity. As it happens, you got your requested elective section so I'm not sure what the issue is here?

You say you "dread to think what would have happened if you didn't fight your corner". What would have happened is that you would have been monitored closely throughout labour, due to your high risk status and hopefully had a vaginal delivery; better for you and better for baby. If, at any point, it seemed the birth was obstructed you would have been given a caesarean.

What your story has highlighted, however, is that if you push hard enough (no pun intended), you can get what you want. Including a caesarean section. This is a luxury believe it or not and only proves that the NHS was an excellent resource for you.

HermioneAndTheSniffle · 21/12/2017 15:56

Well it was damm better than it is now.
Because the funding was higher. And it’s the Tories who have reduced the nhs down to nothing whilst selling some it to private sector.
Not Labour.....

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 21/12/2017 15:59

CJB88 - has anyone since told you that, if you have gestational diabetes, your baby is likely to be bigger? And that if you have GD once, you are at increased risk of having it again next time? Just want you to be aware of that, if you go on to have more children, so you realise that your 9.7lb baby this time is likely to happen again.
Congratulations on your new baby by the way Thanks

RebornSlippy · 21/12/2017 16:00

@Lostmymojo, I get your point. I just feel that some of the stories being bandied about here as 'horrific' and 'terrifying' aren't that bad in the grand scheme of things. I would argue that good care, pain relief, support and kindness is absolutely there for the vast, vast majority of women.

For once, it would be nice to embrace some good. But no, when it comes to childbirth and birth stories, all we seem to hear is the shit storm. Yes, there is room for improvement. There is always room for improvement. But on the whole, it isn't as bad as some are painting it.

And I'm STILL waiting for some sort of data to back up this 1 in 5 claim...