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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Custody of 3 year old son at Xmas?

330 replies

Smeags84 · 21/12/2017 11:45

Hi. I'm a dad to a 3 year old son. I split up with his mum in February this year so this will be our first Xmas separated.

Since we split, we arranged joint custody of our son by ourselves. Its worked out fine. After the initial couple of months which were tough, we're now friends with each other too.

Sorting out Christmasses took longer. We talked about it in October/November, and finally came to an agreement in mid-November. It hasn't been spoken about since we agreed.

My family live in the Wirral, and hers in Manchester. Before we split, we alternated Christmasses. (one year with my family, one year with her family, etc.). Last year was with her family.

Heres where we disagree: Back when we spoke about it, I wanted to alternate Xmas's with our son. And whoever doesnt have him Xmas day gets to spend boxing day and Christmas eve morning with him. And he effectively gets two Christmasses (xmas day and boxing day).
She wants him to spend half the day with each of us. The problem I saw with her way was the distance between us. Its a 60-90min drive. I think thats disruptive to him... I dont think he'd want to spend that time on Xmas day in a car. I also think it would be too busy for him. Last year, he was knackered, with having so many people there, and it being a really busy day. Her way, we'd be doubling the number of people, with him seeing two families, all fussing over him.

We eventually agreed to do my idea, in part because we were able to split his birthday which is only a month before Xmas. It was also agreed I could have him this year because of the fact that last year, we spent it with her family. This was all sorted out mid-November.

Last night, December 20th, she called me, upset, that she wont see him at all on Xmas day and brought up the arguments again.... and we just repeated the stuff we said over and over again, months ago, with her saying she wants to split the day. I'll be speaking to her again tonight.
I'm frustrated because I thought we had agreed, and we've made arrangements now too. Plus, I think this is best for DS. I think her way is just more messing about for him, on an already busy day.

AIBU to just say to her "Look, we've already agreed whats happening on Xmas, and its too late to be trying to change plans" (worded in a nicer way of course).

Appreciate your advice as I'm wondering if I'm being a d**k? I appreciate that its not nice, not seeing your child on Xmas day, but its going to be the same for me next year.

(We did consider other options, such as spending the day together, but this wouldn't work, as we both want to see our families. For me, its pretty much the only time of year I get to see my entire family all together).

Thanks for reading.

OP posts:
Dozer · 21/12/2017 13:58

It doesn’t “just so happen”: the whole point of OP’s approach is that DSgets to enjoy a full xmas day with whichever family. OP’s ex’s solution wouldn’t be as good for DS, or OP. There was no obvious compromise option so someone has to “lose”, in this case Op’s ex, this year.

Yes, the magnanimous thing for OP to do would have been to let his ex have the first separated xmas with DS, and take his turn next year, but it’s hard to be magnanimous in a break up and thus far they’ve both done OK.

I agree with PPs that any health issues aside you’re both BU not to learn to drive.

Sullabylullaby · 21/12/2017 13:58

It is also Christmas day when your little boy might like to see his family all together.

Dozer · 21/12/2017 14:00

The DS has two families Sully. Who live in different places and due to the breakup understandably don’t wish to spend xmas together!

QueenAmongstMen · 21/12/2017 14:00

My parents divorced when I was 5 and the way christmasses worked was that I spent Christmas Eve and up until 2pm on Christmas Day with ny dad, then he would drive to my mum's side of the family where'd I'd spend the rest of Christmas Day and be there Boxing Day too. The difference to your scenario though is that there was only a 20 minute drive to contend with, not a 90 minute one.

My sister has two children and she split up from their father 4 years ago and they all still have Christmas dinner together. My sister isn't "doing it for the children" but she refuses to not see the children on Christmas Day which is what would happen alternate years if they shared Christmasses out.

My sister does all the 24/7 'parenting work' and their dad sees them about 6 hours a week so my sisters arguement is why should she not see her children on Christmas Day when she's their main carer?

As a unit they tend to spend about 4 hours together on Christmas Day and then my sister takes the children back to her house. She then has them until about 5pm on Boxing Day and she then takes them to their father's house and they spend the night there.

I can completely see your point OP and understand your reasons for how you want to do it, but as a mother I couldn't bear the thought of not seeing my children on Christmas Day. If you genuinely feel the same then as difficult as it may seem you have no option but to share the day with her.

Dozer · 21/12/2017 14:03

“I don't think one happy parent and one heartbroken one is a good outcome for anyone.”

I doubt anyone is happy the first xmas after a break up: they are just trying to agree an arrangement that will work, taking turns each year to have DS on xmas eve and boxing day.

If OP’s ex is truly “heartbroken” about not having DS on xmas day then she needs to hide it, and seek support from her friends and family. It’s sad but par for the course when you’re separated, or when someone in the family works at xmas, or is in the forces and away, or ill.

Cantspell2 · 21/12/2017 14:04

I am a child of divorced parents and I never got to see my dad or his side of the family on Christmas Day and I do resent that even though I had happy christmases with my mum.
Stick to the arrangements already made and don’t listen to anyone who thinks a mother has more rights to Christmas than a father.
But is it at all possible she could spend a hour at yours whilst stockings are opened before you leave to visit your family? Maybe an early breakfast together even if it means a very early start for her if she is serious about wanting to see him Christmas Day then a 90 minutes drive at 6 in the morning is nothing.

stitchglitched · 21/12/2017 14:08

The alternating of extended families was an arrangement made when they were together, and presumed that they would be there too, with their child. I don't think that arrangement should be enforced, against the wishes of one parent, once a break up has occurred. The extended family aren't more important to this child than his mother. I would personally prefer to alternate in these circumstances, but there are plenty of posters on here saying splitting the day works well for them. Who is to say which one is best? I just don't get why he has had the final say on everything when his ex wanted a different arrangement. There should have been a compromise IMO.

Worriedrose · 21/12/2017 14:08

I think the whole point he was asking is, is it fair to change it 5 days before Xmas.
Which it's not.
Perhaps she should have had him this Christmas Day and you Boxing Day, but this was not arrange. She should have said a month ago that this is not the way she wanted it to be,
This is a green light to her, that everytime she doesn't like the way things are going she can, at the last minute change the plans and disrupt everything.
I think you need to sit down together and have a proper talk about why you're upset with last minute alterations, because that's the key here. It's LAST minute

Chocolaterainbows · 21/12/2017 14:11

Did everyone miss the bit where the op said his ex was violent/abusive?? I think he is being very fair considering the circumstances. I can't help but think that if the situation was reversed that alot of the replies would be very different. A dad has just as much right to see his child on Christmas day Angry

Dozer · 21/12/2017 14:12

With extended family living in different places there is no obvious “compromise”

“The extended family aren't more important to this child than his mother”.

No one is saying they are. But his mother’s solution is worse for the child.

Sullabylullaby · 21/12/2017 14:12

Stitchglitched The extended family aren't more important to this child than his mother.
That was the point I was making.

stitchglitched · 21/12/2017 14:14

The abusive violent ex who works in a nursery, is completely amiable with him and happy to share care, who he is happy leaving his child with 50% of the time and who he wasn't too intimidated by to be able to bulldoze right over her wishes for xmas and get the outcome that he wanted? Yeah ok.

FullOfXmasCheerOfCourse · 21/12/2017 14:14

Some friends of ours have an agreement, one always has Xmas and the other always has new year. They don't get on in some ways for complicated reasons, so their dc are dropped off at our house on Boxing Day and then collected from our house a little later. It works for them and avoids either getting upset when the other is there.

CupOfFrothyCoffee · 21/12/2017 14:15

I think YAB a bit U. Think of it like this.. You left her. Now you want to take her son away on Christmas. It's got to be hard for her

Totally irrelevant who left who, and how do you know he left her, he just said they split.

ShimmerShineandMe · 21/12/2017 14:15

Is there absolutely anyway you could do Santa presents at mums in the morning so you both see him after the excitement of Santa arriving and then take him to yours in the afternoon? I think that would be fair for this year.

While your way seems fair and makes logical sense, it's her first Christmas after the split and as a mother I can't imagine being without my child on Christmas Morning?

stitchglitched · 21/12/2017 14:16

The obvious compromise would be the extended family recognising that this year is tricky and helping make life easier for their son by visiting him instead of making him travel with his 3 year old, knowing it could jeopardise the delicate balance with his ex and their arrangements.

Chocolaterainbows · 21/12/2017 14:16

I don't believe the op bulldozed over anything. She changed her plans, not him.Confused

Shutupanddance1 · 21/12/2017 14:17

Finding it very funny that people are making the OP feel bad about spending Christmas Day with his son.
Mums and Dads should have equal rights - it’s 50/50 these days. If this means alternating dates then so be it. Nobody here seems to concerned about the fact that this parent will be on their own next Christmas - which I can imagine will be very difficult for them as well.

Sullabylullaby · 21/12/2017 14:17

By boxing day, the excitement of Santa and all the new toys will have worn off. Mum will miss out on all of that. The joy on his little face, the surprise, the excitement, everything. Alternating Christmases is fine when they're older. Not when they are three. And I don't care if it's your great aunt over from Canada for just the day, your little boy's excitement should trump your inferred importance on seeing your extended family.

What little child doesn't excitedly want to show Mammy (or Daddy) what Santa brought? That he got their letter? That Santa did actually come?!!

Personally I think it's cruel to Mum and son at that age.

My opinion. This forum is open to opinions as far as I'm aware, so don't shoot me down for my opinion.

TheHolidayArmadillo · 21/12/2017 14:17

YY stitchglitched

I think objectively, it's obvious that the ex's solution isn't the best option. But I can well imagine a situation where that would be suggested so that she doesn't have to deal with the idea that she won't get to see her three year old on Christmas.

Fluffyblanket17 · 21/12/2017 14:17

I have my 2 boys Christmas eve and Christmas day, ex husband picks them up Christmas day night and has a second Christmas on Boxing Day. We’ve had a lot of problems/arguments since we split, but one thing I will owe him forever for is the fact that he knows how important Christmas is to me and how devastated I’d be if I didn’t have my boys with me. He has told me he would never take that away from me, so I am lucky and very grateful. I do really feel sorry for your ex wife, I’d be heart broken, but no you’re not being un reasonable. It’s probably only just hitting her now that she won’t be waking up with him Christmas Day, so I can’t say she’s being unreasonable for trying to change plans. Me and my ex husband spent the first Christmas after we’d split together at my parents.

Gerbil17 · 21/12/2017 14:18

Thats why if neither of them are happy with not seeing their child on christmas day, they should come to some kind of arrangement to split the day itself or share the day together.
Everyone would be happy.

JacquesHammer · 21/12/2017 14:23

Personally I think it's cruel to Mum and son at that age

It isn't at all. He'd be with a loving parent who had exactly the same rights as the mother.

Ellie56 · 21/12/2017 14:25

Yes I think it is unreasonable to start chopping and changing at this late stage when plans have been in place for weeks.

And how does she propose to facilitate the changeover if neither of you drives and there is no public transport? Or is she expecting one of the family to spend part of their Christmas being a taxi driver?

I hope you find an amicable way of sorting this out OP.

But to stop this sort of thing happening again, maybe you need to get custody and access arrangements set out on a more formal basis.

Sullabylullaby · 21/12/2017 14:26

This isn't about rights. This is about a 3 year old on Christmas morning who is just dying to show Mammy & Daddy what Santa brought. 3 year olds don't care about rights. They care about Santa, Mammy & Daddy.

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