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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Custody of 3 year old son at Xmas?

330 replies

Smeags84 · 21/12/2017 11:45

Hi. I'm a dad to a 3 year old son. I split up with his mum in February this year so this will be our first Xmas separated.

Since we split, we arranged joint custody of our son by ourselves. Its worked out fine. After the initial couple of months which were tough, we're now friends with each other too.

Sorting out Christmasses took longer. We talked about it in October/November, and finally came to an agreement in mid-November. It hasn't been spoken about since we agreed.

My family live in the Wirral, and hers in Manchester. Before we split, we alternated Christmasses. (one year with my family, one year with her family, etc.). Last year was with her family.

Heres where we disagree: Back when we spoke about it, I wanted to alternate Xmas's with our son. And whoever doesnt have him Xmas day gets to spend boxing day and Christmas eve morning with him. And he effectively gets two Christmasses (xmas day and boxing day).
She wants him to spend half the day with each of us. The problem I saw with her way was the distance between us. Its a 60-90min drive. I think thats disruptive to him... I dont think he'd want to spend that time on Xmas day in a car. I also think it would be too busy for him. Last year, he was knackered, with having so many people there, and it being a really busy day. Her way, we'd be doubling the number of people, with him seeing two families, all fussing over him.

We eventually agreed to do my idea, in part because we were able to split his birthday which is only a month before Xmas. It was also agreed I could have him this year because of the fact that last year, we spent it with her family. This was all sorted out mid-November.

Last night, December 20th, she called me, upset, that she wont see him at all on Xmas day and brought up the arguments again.... and we just repeated the stuff we said over and over again, months ago, with her saying she wants to split the day. I'll be speaking to her again tonight.
I'm frustrated because I thought we had agreed, and we've made arrangements now too. Plus, I think this is best for DS. I think her way is just more messing about for him, on an already busy day.

AIBU to just say to her "Look, we've already agreed whats happening on Xmas, and its too late to be trying to change plans" (worded in a nicer way of course).

Appreciate your advice as I'm wondering if I'm being a d**k? I appreciate that its not nice, not seeing your child on Xmas day, but its going to be the same for me next year.

(We did consider other options, such as spending the day together, but this wouldn't work, as we both want to see our families. For me, its pretty much the only time of year I get to see my entire family all together).

Thanks for reading.

OP posts:
Sullabylullaby · 22/12/2017 01:20

He left when she hit him

Where in this thread have you read this piece of information?

Sullabylullaby · 22/12/2017 01:28

100% agree with littlebird. Christmas has little to do with adults when you have children. (assuming you're Christian).
There is only one day Santa arrives, one day of sheer joy and excitement and wonderment, one day to show Daddy and Mammy what Santa brought. One day that Mammy and Daddy have saved for, fretted over, debated over, researched and finally just knew what Santa would be bringing.

364 other days in the year to meet Aunt Agatha and Uncle Peter. Doubtful you'll get even a dour smile out of either of them.
Pity the much loss either.
But to miss your three year old's Christmas day?

melj1213 · 22/12/2017 01:31

@Sullabylullaby it was in page 2, the OPs 3rd update at 12:59:

Yes I left her, but because she had been violent multiple times, so I think I was justified. Infact, the day we effectively split, she threw a punch at my head when I had hold of DS.

Sullabylullaby · 22/12/2017 01:39

Christmas is supposed to be about joy, giving and celebrating.
Not about two separated parents battling over 'who gets little Johnny this year'. It's crass, classless, grubby, greedy and selfish.
Ever hear the tale of King Solomon and the two women claiming to be the rightful mother of a son (heir to the throne or something)?
The one who was the real mother was the one who didn't want the child torn in two and instead offered the child to the other mother so at least he would live; the fraud on the other hand, would happily have seen the child torn in two 'to be fair'.

Solomon was a wise old man.
I hope the little boy in this case at least gets to Skype his Mum in his excitement and show off all his presents Santa brought him.
Makes me sad though. This entire thread.

SD1978 · 22/12/2017 02:18

You’re right- it’s about the child- not the mother. Hence why this dad is happy for alternate years, and his son will spend next year with his Mum for the whole day. I do t see where he’s being selfish, he will be in the same position next year. And Santa has to come to more than one house for many kids- it doesn’t detract from their experience because the parents don’t do it together- not every, and indeed many, kids aren’t in that position. Does that mean they have a crappier christmas?

GetOutOfMYGarden · 22/12/2017 03:50

364 other days in the year to meet Aunt Agatha and Uncle Peter.

And OP probably would have used one of them to invite the family if his ex had just bloody said she wanted to have her DS this christmas back in November. But instead, she's done it 4 days before christmas, after arrangements had been made to invite the family on the day he has DS.

When neither parent has any car of their own to fetch DS to the other parent, so a 90 minute christmas run isn't going to work well either.

You're acting like OP has kidnapped his child and is never going to give him back Hmm

sailorcherries · 22/12/2017 08:19

Sully so why is the OP the only one who should give? Do you have one genuine reason for there to be no alternate Christmases bar 'the poor mother'?

You've also completely ignored my post when I asked what was more damaging and upsetting to a child: pretend happy families for present opening and then waving goodbye to one parent; waving goodbye to one parent as they drop you off; or having a full day with each parent to do all the family things?

JacquesHammer · 22/12/2017 09:10

Christmas is supposed to be about joy, giving and celebrating.
Not about two separated parents battling over 'who gets little Johnny this year'. It's crass, classless, grubby, greedy and selfish.
Ever hear the tale of King Solomon and the two women claiming to be the rightful mother of a son (heir to the throne or something)?
The one who was the real mother was the one who didn't want the child torn in two and instead offered the child to the other mother so at least he would live; the fraud on the other hand, would happily have seen the child torn in two 'to be fair'.
Solomon was a wise old man.
I hope the little boy in this case at least gets to Skype his Mum in his excitement and show off all his presents Santa brought him.
Makes me sad though. This entire thread

What a load of patronising twattery.

The only person "battling" is the mum. FOUR days before Christmas when something has been in place since October.

Had the mum been clear in October then another arrangement could have been made.

As is OP has made arrangements to the agreed schedule and she is trying to change things. She is massively unreasonable.

Sully I get the feeling you've never been in this situation so laying down the law on what is correct to people who are IS crass.

sailorcherries · 22/12/2017 09:15

And sully the person wanting the boy split in two so he can be with both parents is the mother, not the OP.

You sound like a sanctimonious twat.

billybagpuss · 22/12/2017 09:26

Have you had any more conversations OP. I can understand Mum's wobble a few days before.

Hoping you are able to sort it out amicably.

However setting this as a precedent this year may backfire. A long journey at age 3 = nap time. age 5 = one very overtired little boy for whoever has the afternoon shift.

Voiceforreason · 22/12/2017 09:30

Why do people assume the father has lesser feelings for his child than the mother? How typically mumsnet some of these replies are. Here we have a man who was subjected to abuse and domestic violence. He has shared care of his child. He therefore gives as much care to his chikd as the mother. Who can say he is in the wrong in wanting to stick to arrangements quite willing entered into weeks ago. The mother has had second thoughts. Tough! If the positions were reversed, people on here would be advising the mother to refuse the father contact because of the dangers of abuse. My advice is stick to the arrangement and be prepared to go to court if at any time the present position breaks down. I think you could have a fair case for being residential parent.

Original poster
Smeags84 · 22/12/2017 13:30

I'm on my mobile and out, so I've only read up to page 5 but I wanted to reply to all that stuff.

There was a lot of talk of me getting my own way by a few people, and that I've steamrolled my way over her.... well, we spoke about both his birthday (which is November) and Xmas together.

I wanted to alternate his birthday each year too (each year, one person getting his birthday and the other person xmas). She wanted to split the day. The compromise was that we'd do his birthday her way, and Xmas my way. I didn't like doing that on his birthday but that's what we did. (I was even happy to not see him at all on his birthday cus I would've had him the following day).

OP posts:
Original poster
Smeags84 · 22/12/2017 13:33

Anyway thanks for the replies again. It's useful to know people's thoughts.

OP posts:
Nannyplumbrocks · 22/12/2017 13:44

Thats a really tough one op and theres no right answer. I absolutely could not be without my kids Christmas eve and Christmas morning. My parents split when I wad a kid but my father always spent Christmas with us at my mother's. Otherwise he would have missed all those Christmas mornings . I think thats the only solution really.

BerkInBag · 22/12/2017 14:25

Ever hear the tale of King Solomon and the two women claiming to be the rightful mother of a son (heir to the throne or something)?

Jesus H Corbett - really?

Anyway, OP - I think when you make a deal you make a deal and you stick to it. If you change it then what's the point in making any plans ever.

billybagpuss · 22/12/2017 15:11

So hang on a minute, the full deal was, she got birthday (which she has had and you didn’t see him on his birthday) and you get Christmas but 4 days before she wobbles and wants to change the plans?

I think you are trying to be so reasonable here and if you can without upsetting Christmas for everyone you should maybe stand your ground. Good luck x

stitchglitched · 22/12/2017 15:12

No, they split the birthday so they both got to see him.

QueenAmongstMen · 22/12/2017 15:28

wanted to alternate his birthday each year too (each year, one person getting his birthday and the other person xmas). She wanted to split the day. The compromise was that we'd do his birthday her way, and Xmas my way

How luckily convenient for you....

Lovemusic33 · 22/12/2017 15:37

I don’t know how you can really solve this without no one being upset.

Is there anyway you could invite her to lunch with your family or would that be awkward? You say you are on good terms?

The first year I split with my ex I invited him to stay over so he could see the dc’s open their presents in the morning, he then went to spend the rest of the day with his family and had the dc’s on Boxing Day.

Birthdays have net been a issue as the dc’s are usually at school, their dad calls them in the evening or pops over, if there birthday lands on the day he has them then he has them as usual.

QueenAmongstMen · 22/12/2017 15:39

All I've read is what you want and what your wife wants and it's driving me mad.

Have you forgotten about a little 3 year old boy in the middle whose had to deal with his parents break up who are now bickering over him like he's a prize to win. It's shameful.

A child should be with both their parents on Christmas morning. A 3 year old is going to want to share his excitement about santa with both his mom and his dad and that is ALL that should matter.

Any parent that is happy to see the other child go without seeing their child on Christmas Day (unless there are severe circumstances) is dispicable in my eyes.

Christmas is about your son, not you, not your Ex so you need to stop all this selfishness and let him be with both his parents because that's what will make the day special for him and that's all that should matter

sailorcherries · 22/12/2017 15:48

So Queen mummy and daddy have a sleep over and presents are opened. Does the little boy stay with mummy and wave daddy goodbye or leave with daddy and wave mummy goodbye?

Or do they play house until one moves on and come to this again?

Or is house slightly more confusing and upsetting for a small child?

ItsChristmoose · 22/12/2017 15:53

Queen, he's 3. It's really up to the parents to decide and clearly a lot of the arguments for and against have been based on what's a pleasant experience for the child. Also, there's been zero mention of bickering about this in front of the child so doing it behind closed doors is of no consequence to the child. It's perfectly normal to have to hash these things out.

Your response reads like some trotted out superior crap about dressed up as concern for the child, when actually all you are doing is beating two parents who are trying to navigate the tricky and painful areas of a split.

Neither are wrong to want to spend special days with their child. And what they are doing is simple negotiation, and is necessary.

QueenAmongstMen · 22/12/2017 15:57

He says bye bye to mommy and goes with daddy to spend time with his dad's family like was the initial plan.

The opening of presents is what's exciting for children, their happiness about santa having been to the house etc and that should be shared with both parents.

Just my opinion.

Redhead17 · 22/12/2017 16:05

Last year my ex didn’t want to see her Xmas day but did Boxing Day.

I feel it’s important for child to see both parents on Christmas Day.

Luckily he always allows her to stay with me Xmas eve and have her presents. He usually picks her up Xmas morning at 11 and then back Boxing Day early afternoon.

It works for us and she is more than happy to toodle off for more presents.

JacquesHammer · 22/12/2017 16:08

A child should be with both their parents on Christmas morning

Don't be ridiculous. There are plenty of families where people alternate Christmas and it works absolutely fine.