Grenfell-ex-residents-should-get-a-3-bed-house-with-a-garden-if-thats-what-they-want? - thread 2

[cathf]

Don't know how to do links
But this is to continue discussing the Grenfall-ex-residents-should-get-a-3-bed-house-with-a-garden-if-thats-what-they-want? thread

Makeourfuture, I thought so.
There are no other solutions, unless you can suggest any.
Honestly, this thread is ridiculous. Lots of pearl-clutching about how awful it is, but absolutely no pragmatic solutions which will not take years to implement
Meanwhile, the waiting list for housing at K&C is on hold to everyone apart from Grenfell survivors, who are refusing homes offered.
You couldn't make it up.

How interesting and patronising that you assume everyone gets their info from the press, Bella. Some of us LIVE near there. Some of the people on the earlier thread WORK in that sector.

Personally I couldn't care less where people come from. I care a great deal about what they do once they are here, and how they are treated.

But it is absolutely unavoidable that a large number of people DO care where people come from. Immigration is a very hot topic, politically. Someone on the thread about council houses commented earlier today that he/she doesn't see why migrants can take stuff out of the system when he/she was born here and worked for many years and can't get anything.

If you denigrate people who hold those views, or if you refuse to acknowledge them because you like to live in a comfortable echo chamber, or if you refuse to engage because you perceive yourself as morally superior - then you're part of the problem IMO.

I don’t mean to represent anyone Rebecca,

Sorry if Ive miss understood your post but you want to change racism by being racist ? Is that correct ?

There is no grey area.

You say it is a FACT that somalians are poorly represented in the uk your opinions are not facts Rebecca

Mo Farah Somali immigrant.

See - you're just not getting it.

Poorly represented in EMPLOYMENT I said. Look it up. 65% of Somalian men unemployed. 50% leave school without qualifications. These aren't my "opinion". These are upsetting and unfair statistics.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2012/feb/21/somali-community-britain-finds-voice

I said we should be addressing why this happens so that we can turn it around. YOU see that as racist. Meanwhile the people you want to protect from my "racism" of wanting to find out why it happens and how we can start to address it across all areas of society, e.g. by looking at if/why employers are turning down Somalian applicants and how we can stop this, don't get any of the help. Let's just leave them all without qualifications and the opportunity to get decent jobs, shall we?

www.economist.com/news/britain/21583710-somalis-fare-much-worse-other-immigrants-what-holds-them-back-road-long

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5029390.stm

Thanks for the link Bella, says it all really doesn’t it.

OMG Rebecca I haven’t said those statistics are racist I said some of the comments that you agreed with on the other thread were racist.

Are you actually trying to say that your racist comments are actually designed to help the Somali community?

And that me calling out racists on the internet will be detrimental to that community?

God Help Us!

Where has Rebecca made racist comments? I don't see any here and I didn't see anything on the last thread (although it got a bit too long for me so I didn't finish).

No you weren't. You were referring to comments above - and now you're trying to skate backwards. Beep beep this kitty is reversing!

and I am saying the exact opposite of that. I am saying that by failing to do that, by refusing to engage in discussions, you are part of the problem.

Then again, I don't think you really understand any of it anyway!

Rebecca i didnt bring up reading matter . woodhill did.

Heres a copy and paste even though it was only on the previous page.

"

woodhill Thu 21-Dec-17 13:30:41
Why are there opinions backwards? Rebecca and Cath probably speak for loads of people who are sick and tired of reading about freeloaders and dishonest people who are taking advantage of our systems whether from here originally or from abroad"

I honestly haven’t got a clue what that last comment was trying to say!

I wasn’t ! What?

Too many to copy & paste I’m afraid MissionItsPossible,
some were absolutely disgusting & were removed by MN although I think other posters did repost them.

Our past? Our present?

I personally don’t have a problem with your opinions however backwards they are.....BUT Racism is Racism and should not be tolerated

Tolerated by anyone, really .... do you really mean that? I don't think you do. It's a one-way street with you.

And yet very racist and highly intolerant people are coming into the country with very backward beliefs, firmly held. That doesn’t appear to upset you very much. Methinks you may be a Regressive Leftie. That was coined by Maajid Nawaz, by the way, and it beautifully describes that section of left-wing politics who hold reactionary views by their tolerance of illiberal principles and ideologies FOR THE SAKE OF multiculturalism and cultural relativism.

The RL has thrown several sections of our society under the bus, esp. the status of women, in favour of a misogynistic, totalitarian outlook which is promulgated within tight, shut-off communities and will continue thru the generations. The RL delusionals actually 'forgive' antisocial, cruel and exploitative practices, support wives & daughters being physically chastised by some immigrant groups (because that's the culture), but come down like a ton of bricks on some poor English sap who slaps his girlfriend once.

Oh yeah, and where were the Women's lib groups during the Cologne sex attacks? They were busy attending to and supporting the intolerants. Women selling out other women on such an important issue in favour of an ideology that has no regard for them, consider women daft but will take with a smirk.

Off topic, I know, but in a debate some wandering is allowed.

Well I don’t think those who illegally sublet should get any advantage. They are obviously living somewhere else so they can sort themselves out.

And I also think those who come from the area who are on the waiting list should get priority over newly-arrived immigrants. Those who come from the area have 1) paid into the system and 2) will have roots/neighbours etc there. If you’ve fled from another country to the UK to be safe then it’s fair you are housed but not necessarily in the richest borough of the richest city where only about 0.5% of the population can afford to live.

Excellent summary by cathf at Wed 20-Dec-17 21:19:11.

Interesting link from Bella at 13.29, but how disappointing that some seem to feel the culture of those running the enquiry is more important than their experise

I'd hope that any such issues considered relevant can be addressed by taking evidence from Grenfell residents, but it's harder to see how anyone's cultural/racial makeup could add much to enquiries into who ordered what, how materials were described/chosen and other purely technical matters

Still, at least it indicates how some will interpret anything in the reports which they dislike ... "they were all rayyycist!!!"

Wandering Chakra? Fucking Hell!

Can you provide any proof that immigrants get to rent council housing before British people?

Or shall we all just take your word for that?

I’ve always thought “immigrants were more likely to have to rent tiny rooms for extortionate rents from slum landlords

But please enlighten us.

The racism we have seen here is just awful as well

I really wish people like you had some way of hearing what some immigrants are saying about the Brits. It would get you running for the hills, girl. You have no idea of what real racism is until you've been exposed to the comments made, esp. about women.

I have an Iraqi friend who is proficient in several languages, and familiar with a few dialects. In my part of the world this takes care of all the immigrant groups that I encounter. Politeness & smiles to your face, but the asides to friends are disgusting and VERY RACIST.

ChakraLines I can't remember who posted it or if it was on here or somewhere else, but I read a comment in a similar vein to yours regarding Lily Allen that said something like 'A decade ago Lily sang "So you say it's not okay to be gay? Well I think you're just evil. You're just some racist who can't tie my laces and your point of view is medieval" but now is sticking up for racist people who also think it's not okay to be gay due to medieval views.

Hang on to your hat, Chakra ... any minute now, someone will be along to tell you that anybody non white can't possibly be racist because only those with power can be described thus

Well I don’t think those who illegally sublet should get any advantage. They are obviously living somewhere else so they can sort themselves out

I worked in Housing years ago, Cauliflower, and if it was found you had sublet you didn't get a second chance - you were evicted. No fannying around. But now we have this creeping indecision about many things. If you don't carry out what is stated in the rental contract, then you make yourself to be an organisation that can be twisted around someone's fiinger. Also, you had to give the rent to council that you received from your sublet tenant. In other words, you could not profit from having a council flat.

The RL has thrown several sections of our society under the bus, esp. the status of women, in favour of a misogynistic, totalitarian outlook which is promulgated within tight, shut-off communities and will continue thru the generations.

Your answer is to deport? To make homeless?

Now is not the time for idelogical austerity. Why not offer support to these women?