Grenfell-ex-residents-should-get-a-3-bed-house-with-a-garden-if-thats-what-they-want? - thread 2

[cathf]

Don't know how to do links
But this is to continue discussing the Grenfall-ex-residents-should-get-a-3-bed-house-with-a-garden-if-thats-what-they-want? thread

Yes I agree Pony

Correct me if I’m wrong Rebecca/ Hyacinth Bucket but I’m sure you commented on some of the posters (I’ll go back & check) that were insulting Somalians
Or was that another Rebecca?

I think the real point is - when speaking of consequences - that there has been a terrible failure in social housing. And specific to this case, public safety

No. The real point is - as per the OP on thread 1 - should people who have survived the disaster be given what the want when they are rehoused?
I have asked a few times now of everyone who says they should:

1. Where will these houses come from?
2. What will happen if the houses are not available?
3. Is it fair that potential HA tenants turns something down, but the home is not available to others on the list?
4. What about other traumatised people already on the list?

And the responses have been a repeated loop of how awful Grenfell was, how traumatised the victims are, how they should get what the want and how the council should build more homes for everyone. As far as I am aware, no-one who is on the loop has addressed the real issues of what about the others on the list and where are the houses going to come from? So, Makeourfuture, without referring to changing the law which will be time-consuming, what solution do you have to house these people NOW?

It depends what you consider insulting really, kitty/virtuesignaller.

I gave an example of something i experienced with a particular large Somalian family who moved here, none of whom worked, and who flatly refused to move out of my neighbour's flat despite owing him a large amount of arrears "because the council won't rehouse us and then we might have to leave zone 1".

In the process of that whole debacle, I was told:

• white British people "don't understand how to do business"

• women are "too emotional" to deal with "important things" like property
• women shouldn't have to sign things like leases because "they can't understand them"

And my neighbour, the landlord, was threatened that "the community" would be "looking out for him" and told that he was "not a real Muslim" - all for trying to enforce the debt that was owed to him and for protesting about them telling me I couldn't understand by virtue of being a woman.

But yeah, it was ME who was insulting

Posters like you stifle debate. Hyacinth Bucket is a shining beacon of brains and common sense compared to you!

It absolutely requires will and planning. laissez faire will not cut it.

These things are sticking plaster. Ad hoc remedies that are not remedies at all.

telling me I couldn't understand by virtue of being a woman.

That would be awful coming from anyone.

And sadly, no group has a monopoly on sexism.

You asked for an example of racism on the old thread & I gave you one.

You know the definition of racism surely.

I think it’s posters like you who stifle debate with your insults and anger.

Are you ok?.... In yourself I mean?....genuine question

And the rest of it was ok, was it? Perfectly Ok to tell my neighbour that he couldn't be a "real Muslim" if he wouldn't write off the debt for a fellow Muslim and to make a slur about him being British Indian and to threaten him with the Somalian community?

Perfectly normal behaviour!

Racism would be to say they can't have a flat because they are Somalian.

To say that a Somalian man said the above is factual.

HTH.

I'm absolutely fine thank you. Not so sure about you.

You are not answering my question Makeourfuture.
What sticking plaster do you suggest, because it seems to be a stalemate at the moment.
I will ask you the same question I asked Apple in the last post.
Two scenarios (both hypothetical)
Scenario 1: K&C born single mum escaping domestic violence, in temporary bedsit accomodation with three young children
Scenario 2: Family from Malta entered the UK in March last year, were told by the council they could go on the list but the likely wait was 10 years. They decide to rent illegally from a subletting landlord.
Who do you think should get the one house available?

False dichotomy. Why not other solutions?

I’m not sure you understand the definition Rebecca,

You and other posters we’re generalising about a perticular race which put me and probably many others off of joining in the debate on the other thread.

I genuinely feel sorry for what ever has happened to make you so angry, maybe you should take a break from threads like these for a while.

They seem to be above the law

When I mentioned the various amnesties involved, this is precisely what I was worrying about

It seems to me that it should be possible to help the genuine Grenfell residents and take a strong line with those who've abused the system - why should these be mutually exclusive?

Oh do pipe down with your patronising and faux concern. You don't fool anyone.

Some people on the earlier thread made it clear that they think prioritising newcomers to the country over people who were born here or who have been here a number of years is wrong. (I actually don't agree with that as I think these things should be taken on a case by case basis, but that's just my opinion, just as everyone else's opinion is theirs). My anecdote was given in the context of a recently arrived family who were not refugees and who had strong views about where they were prepared to live.

But when posters like you scream RACIST at any hint of a discussion, rather than pointing out why you disagree, it stifles debate. If you had intelligent points to make, you might change minds. Imagine that.

Because certain posters think being a victim of Grenfell and being anything other than a good person ARE mutually exclusive, Puzzled.
They have been involved in a high-profile and horrific event and they are HA tenants, therefore their motives can not be questioned.

Well, I honestly don't see what is so controversial about prioritising people who were born here above people who were not.
Yes it seems like an outrageous idea to some.
Maybe if they were in the shoes of the people who could not bid on homes, they would feel differently?

Your anecdote wasn’t about council tenants was it Rebecca?

So not really relevant to the debate.

I’ve not seen anyone “ scream RACIST at any hint of a discussion”
I’ve only seen people call out racism when they’ve seen it.

certain posters think being a victim of Grenfell and being anything other than a good person ARE mutually exclusive

I know - worrying, isn't it?

And FWIW it's not even those most closely affected I'm thinking of, but folk such as subletters who took advantage at every turn and were probably nowhere near the place at the time. Quite why everyone has to be lumped together with little distinction made baffles me; it's almost as if some some feel that no questions should be asked at all

Also, someone mentioned on the first thread that family members of residents, who have arrived in the UK since the fire, are also being accommodated. Does anyone know if this is really so, I wonder?

Cath and Rebecca,

I personally don’t have a problem with your opinions however backwards they are.....BUT

Racism is Racism and should not be tolerated.

It was absolutely relevant in the context, actually.

I also don't think you help the people you mean to represent. To carry on the example from that thread, it is a fact that somalians in the U.K. are poorly represented in the employment market, far more so than migrants from other countries. It's a very unfair and needless statistic. How can we start to change it? Not by shutting down debate and pretending there is no problem, and saying that it's racist even to talk about it, that's for sure. If you have employers who don't want to employ somalians, WHY is that? How can we re-educate them? If we have a group within that community who don't want to work, how can we change that perception? If we have women who aren't allowed to work, or who are discouraged from working, again, how can we change that?

Because saying that it's all just "generalisations" and accusing people of racism and bias ain't going to do it!

Kit Kat

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2989519-To-not-understand-why-grenfell-victims-want-the-investigation-panel-to-include-Morrocan-and-Nigerian-ethnicities?pg=1

Why are there opinions backwards? Rebecca and Cath probably speak for loads of people who are sick and tired of reading about freeloaders and dishonest people who are taking advantage of our systems whether from here originally or from abroad.

It must be nice to be given a council property in K&C then abuse this by having the nerve to sublet it and break the law

Then maybe certain people should change their reading matter woodhill.