To be shocked by the young woman killed by her own pit bull dogs in the USA?

[AbsentmindedWoman]

I have just seen this, and find it really shocking. Is it not extremely unusual for well-loved dogs to turn on their owner?

It seems different from the awful stories where a dog savages a child in a family. The reports are that this woman had her dogs since puppyhood, and friends said they were very affectionate - surely that's not a sign of an insecure or fearful dog who snaps and mauls somebody?

There are lots of very knowledgeable folks when it comes to dogs on Mumsnet, what do you think - is this just a very rare incident? Or what is the most likely reason?

I love dogs, I found this pretty shocking and very sad.

Wowsers the typos 😱 I do have a good grasp of English i swear...i just also have fat fingers 😬

Yes a responsible dog owner ruin it for everyone I agree, irresponsible dog owners are a problem
how should they be dealt with?
Furthermore how should irresponsible dog owners be identified?
I have no doubt that all dog owners believe themselves to be responsible ...believe themselves to have superior knowledge of how to handle dogs, pride themselves that they are the rightful owner of the Japanese Akita, not like those other clueless idiots they just have dog as a status symbol but not me
oh no not me

Must

(Happens to the best of us. I tend to keep my grammar check on German, which usually leads to a few more umlauts and capital letters than strictly necessary... 😉)

Anyhow, ‘But saying all dogs of a particular breed are dangerous doesn't make it true either.’

Yes, but large and or more muscular will do more damage than a tiny Pomeranian if they’re out of control. If a Pom were to decide to bite DD? I could probably dispatch it myself. If it’s a large dog (e.g. a Husky)? The situation would be very different.

And no, I don’t dislike huskies. We used to own a gorgeous rescued husky (mix?) when I was a teenager. (He was a lovely dog)

In my experience a good 50% of dog owners are irresponsible in as much as they don't keep the dogs under control.
Typically the dog is off the lead the owner is walking along looking at the phone paying no attention to the dog meanwhile the dog is running around accosting people approaching children and just generally being a nuisance.

Oh i've reported many an idiot dog owner - with genuine concerns about dog welfare or public safety - and do you know the worst that has happened? The dog has been removed. Usually PTS because owner won't fight for it. Slap on the wrist & guess what? A new dog within a week 😔 Personally? If a person is found to be in possession of an out of control/untrained dog they should face a decent punishment. stringing them up by the bollocks would be a wonderful start we currently punish the dogs & let the idiots responsible get away with it.

But not all big dogs are out of control. So it's still a wrong stereotype. Big dogs have more potential, absolutely. Doesn't automatically mean are all vicious beasts.
A pom bloody hurts if it bites tho 😂 Little bastards i love all dogs i swear

You're right it doesn't. But saying all dogs of a particular breed are dangerous doesn't make it true either.

I do agree with this statement.

However I do think it would be more realistic if people accepted that some breeds are more genetically likely exhibit certain behaviour. So for example, huskies are more likely to be independent and run off, GSD to guard, collies to herd etc etc.

People deny it but unfortunately for bull breeds they are or were bred to display more aggression (to other animals in particular) than some other breeds. This often gets them into trouble when people stick their hands into fights between dogs, as is the case here in my opinion. Generally when dogs do squabble it does not escalate to the point at which it often does when pits/staffs do as they don't seem to have the off switch in that situation that most others do, maybe because generations back they were bred to not give up? I've seen the same behaviour in terriers bred to take down prey, relentlessness for want of a better word!
Or maybe they are easier to tip into an aggressive state if pushed or encouraged too as it comes more naturally to them than to say a cavalier?

I am torn on the whole thing really, on one hand I do think it's down to the individual dog but on the other hand it's hard to deny that breeds are bred a certain way for a reason? I have studied genetics and behaviour in detail and I find it hard to rule out that most dogs are genetically programmed to behave in a certain way because we have forced them too and no amount of loving them is going to erase that once instinct kicks in.

See oh according to the law if your dog is off lead & you aren't in control - so spot on recall or the dog is out of sight - you are considered to have a dangerous dog. If you reported such owners tho, as would be your right to do so, nothing would be done. Stupid really!

I'd love to see more designated dog parks like they do in the US, which would reduce the need for off leash dogs in open spaces.

Because in their mind the dog is a quasi human and as such must be allowed freedom of expression, must be allowed to run around and do it doggie thing, must be allowed to go and say hello to other humans because yes it's a quasi human after all it's a member of our family why don't you like it.

Yes it's a privileged position alright we give it the rights of a human to do it's doggy animal things

Grey absolutely, all dogs are bred for a purpose. Some very badly, but that's another thread entirely. But look at the history of BSL; in 25 years & after thousands of 'type' dogs being destroyed, we still have a ridiculously high number of dog attacks. It has done sod all to reduce the number of dog attacks. Surely if the problem was purely based on breed the numbers would have reduced, especially given the number of 'type' dogs seized each year?

Don't get me wrong, I am not a bleeding heart that things you can save them all. I'm not naive or stupid; i am always really bloody careful with my dogs & make sure i know their quirks & their triggers. I just think that things need changing & the consequences need to be felt more by the idiots holding the lead instead of just falling on the dogs at the other end

I'd love to see more designated dog parks like they do in the US, which would reduce the need for off leash dogs in open spaces
Yes yes I think that would be great👍
I do like dogs they can be cute and fun and friendly, but I'm also wary of them, being attacked recently was a very traumatic experience and caused me a lot of pain and anxiety
Incidentally the owner blamed me and I wasn't able to report them because I didn't know the name and was too shocked and traumatised to get the name at the time.

Considering what happened I think I am pretty calm around dogs but I give them a wide berth now

I'm an avid dog lover (give me dogs over people any day) but i cringe seeing off lead dogs in some areas. Around play parks is the worst; hyped up, screaming kids running around is enough to send even the calmest dog nuts let alone its owner

I think everyone (responsible) ultimately wants the same thing...we just need them up top to get grip

just think that things need changing & the consequences need to be felt more by the idiots holding the lead instead of just falling on the dogs at the other end

100% this.

There are countries where dog owners need a licence, for example.

you reported such owners tho, as would be your right to do so, nothing would be done. Stupid really!

V stupid. Having a dog trainer assess their dog and at least a mandatory amount of training (which they’d be required to pay for)? Strict ‘dog owning’ bans?

I'd support a license, with mandatory training and an exam for all owners, breeders, rescues and adopters, including BYB. They should be forced to acquire a license to sell their pups. The sale of the pups could cover the cost of the license.

Animals should not be sold freely on the web and in pet shops as they are now. It should be much harder to acquire a sentient being than simply asking on Facebook if anyone has any pups ready to buy. I'd like to see the sale and advertisement of animals restricted only to licensed breeders, who could advertise via breed specific websites, to which a membership fee must be paid in order to peruse the ads.

People rescuing dogs could be given a license and training at a concessionary rate to discourage the buying of pups while so many perfectly decent family pets are condemned to life in rescues.

Rescues need cracking down on as much as breeders, particularly council run pounds which freely hand over dogs to anyone willing to pay the fee with little to no background checks or home checks or knowledge of that particular dog.

I'm not sure about dog parks. I wouldn't use one. You hear too many horror stories of dogs being killed and injured in them after silly ass owners bring in their poorly socialised, stressed out whatever breed and let it run amok with dogs of all sizes. They'd have to be strictly controlled or they'd quickly become a bloodbath.

My issue with dog licences is it will be the responsible ones that suffer. Look at the chipping law; responsible owners chip their dogs. Irresponsible ones don't. Nothing is policed & the irresponsible ones get away with it. A dog licence would see good owners forking out £££ whilst the idiots have dogs on the sly.

Lifetime bans also suck. There has been an evil bitch released from prison this month after severe animal cruelty & abuse; her ban means she cannot own dogs. Her live in partner however has three dogs. She is allowed to live in the same house as those dogs because she does not own them. How bloody warped is that

Frequency i am 100% in agreement with your comment re rescues. Far far too easy to become a 'rescue' & scam people out of thousands whilst irresponsibly homing/treating vulnerable animals. I know of one vile cretin who swapped a puppy (bred in rescue) for a wedding dress 😡😡😡😡

Animals should not be sold freely on the web and in pet shops as they are now. It should be much harder to acquire a sentient being than simply asking on Facebook if anyone has any pups ready to buy. I'd like to see the sale and advertisement of animals restricted only to licensed breeders, who could advertise via breed specific websites, to which a membership fee must be paid in order to peruse the ads

I agree, but I fear it would be a hard sell, as things stand it seems to me that people feel they have a fundamental right to acquire as many pets as they desire.
Indeed many act as if dog ownership is inevitable and almost mandatory, as if dogs are just a fact of life and nothing can be done about them

I think a limit on the number of dogs per household, all dogs must be chipped with something scan-able by mobile phone apps so that all dogs must be registered to an owner
as with a car you could pull out your phone snap the number plate and report dangerous driving, so with a dog we need some way to identify the dog and report it.
Obviously this will all need to be acted on bythe authorities...which again seems like a long shot

I wouldn't want make it so hard that only an elite group of experts could own animals. I'd just like to see people at least demonstrate a basic level of understanding of their pets needs and behaviour before they take said pet home. All pets, not just dogs.

Those hamster starter homes that PAH sell, need banning but so many people go out and buy them, believing they are fine because they've done no independent research and PAH told them it was okay.

then again I can see body cams becoming more prevalent in the future, many cyclists wear helmet cams, drivers have dash cams, with a small unobtrusive camera you could film an out of control dog, send footage to the police who would use some sort of facial and/or gait recognition to identify the owner

you'd have secret underground breeding, dogs bred by drug dealers for protection who never saw the light of day, taken out only at night

I cant see things getting any better, more likely we'll end up with packs of feral dogs as in many other countries :(

and I repeat that all dog owners believe themselves to be good and responsible, including the irresponsible ones, all are emotionally attached to their pets and often not able to be impartial.
If a dog attacks someone a sizable majority of owners will blame the victim and not want to see their pet as being at fault, it's a member of the family, an honorary human but is allowed to get away with things that we would not accept from a human

I'm a big dog person, I love mine to bits but I wouldn't trust him. He's a dog. Not a little boy. Their brains don't function like ours and it's ridiculous to pretend that they do. My dog is only little but very powerful (French Bulldog) and when he does bite (because yes, he does bite) the pain from it depends on whether he means it or not. If he doesn't mean it, you feel the teeth and a slight pressure but no discomfort. If he means it, it's like having your hand trapped in a vice lined with screws.

Dogs are dangerous, all of them. If you choose to live with that danger (like I do) fair enough but at least acknowledge it. It's stupidity not to.

My next dog will be a German shepherd. Love them.

If he means it, it's like having your hand trapped in a vice lined with screws
sounds like you've experienced being bitten by your dog!

I have, he's a pain in the arse. I'd never get another Frenchie. He's the most unpredictable, 'naughty', stubborn dog I've ever had. He can be lovely, but he can also be a nob - a bit like your average human 😂

a bit like your average human
not really, your average human doesnt sink it's teeth into you

it sounds like you've not got your dog under control at all ....if it goes around biting doesnt that make you a bad dog owner?