To think ladies first has no place these days

[Idreamofalandrover]

They've used it twice on the apprentice tonight, why? We aren't in the 50s anymore!

The point is that women and children first was always a fantasy, a theory, I think the only times it actually happened were when the men were held back at gunpoint.

Men often make statements about what they are like - "chivalry" and so forth - which are not upheld generally by their actual behaviour.

Chivalry:

"WHEN the Titanic sank beneath the waves, men famously stood back from the boats and women and children fled to safety first.
But a new study suggests the chivalrous rule of "women and children first" rarely happens - and may only have happened on the Titanic because the captain threatened to shoot men who tried to get into the lifeboats.

Analysis of 18 maritime disasters in which 15,000 people died showed only 17.8 per cent of the women survived versus 34.5 per cent of the men. Of the Titanic's passengers, 70 per cent of the women were saved but just 20 per cent of the men.

The idea of saving "women and children first" has been described as "the unwritten law of the sea".

But the analysis of maritime disasters suggests that women and children are often left to last - and that even on the Titanic, the "chivalry" was helped by the fact the captain threatened to shoot men who got into the lifeboats before women."

Thats very interesting vertical

I think there are always going to be people who shove their way past the more vulnerable no matter what sex they are

And there are always going to be people who do the opposite

Who would have thought, men like avoid death too!

Is this the thing where the men on the internet gleefully say "Ha! Women said they wanted to be equal, that means I can punch them in the face!" which is a weird thing to say whichever way you look at it

Why? I've always found it interesting how willing women are to hit men* and how utterly surprised they are on the rare occasions they are struck back.

*for clarity I'm not talking DV here more stranger assaults

I've always found it interesting how willing women are to hit men

I'm sorry, can you explain this?

I've never hit a man. I've never known a woman who has hit a man.

I've never encountered a trend for women launching unprovoked stranger assaults on men they don't know.

I think that might be about the women you know... I don't know any women who would ever think it was acceptable to hit anyone unless in self defence, man or woman. I know that in soaps and things women often slap men, but I've never witnessed that in real life. Similarly, on TV women fighting each other isn't uncommon, but I've never, ever witnessed that either. Every time I've been walking through the town centre on a Friday night or whatever and seen a fight it's been two (or more) men fighting each other.

Oh here we go again. Conflating ‘equality’ with ‘sameness’

I worked in night clubs for over a decade, and now I'm a police officer. I can assure you it's fairly common

Men and women are not the same/identical.

But I'm unaware of any difference that requires women to have doors held open for them more than men do. It's hardly about physical strength... It's a bloody door not a truck.

SnowGlitter

As a student I spent a few years pulling pints in various ‘feisty’ establishments (think Yates Wine Lodge, Lloyds Bar etc) and while it did not take a lot to cause a bunch of moronic pisssd up blokes to knock lumps out of each other there was a sizeable number of women who saw no issue throwing drinks / punches / bottles at the object of their ire be it a man or women. Many of them clearly operated on the theory that it was very unlikely that a man would retaliate and if he did he would probably be set upon by half a dozen white knights.

As common as men hitting men? Or, in fact, as all the statistical evidence shows, far, far less common? It just seems to me that if any group in society needs to be taught not to hit, it doesn't make sense to start with women...

As common as men hitting men?

No of course not, but that's not the point, and not really relevant. Men know that if they hit another man there's fairly good odds they're going to be hit back. Women are very surprised if they're hit back. And as pan says they'll have half a dozen men who will come to their rescue

For clarification, the "men on the internet" I refer to with this:

"Is this the thing where the men on the internet gleefully say "Ha! Women said they wanted to be equal, that means I can punch them in the face!" which is a weird thing to say whichever way you look at it"

They are not talking about in self defence. They are saying, ha, now I can walk up to women and punch them in the face. Take that, feminists!

Maybe you haven't come across them

The response of:

"Why? I've always found it interesting how willing women are to hit men* and how utterly surprised they are on the rare occasions they are struck back. "

Doesn't chime with me either. I've been punched in the face on the street by a strange man (I was waiting at a bus stop, had a suspected broken jaw), had a man pour beer over my head, and of been otherwise assaulted stacks of times in a non violent but sexual manner.

I've never been attacked by a woman and I've never seen a man be attacked by a woman. I have seen men and women drunkenly fight, including a man trying to put his girlfriends head through a window, seen a man glassed (by another man) and been present at plenty of impromptu fights in pubs and indeed outside them with police vans racing up and down the road. So I don't think it's a question of being sheltered....

Why are so many women so keen to say that women are just as violent and dangerous as men, despite all evidence to the contrary? There's the size thing as well. No-one should hit anyone, however if I hit my husband I'd not damage him much, if he hit me I'd likely be killed. Us punching each other is not "equality" it's a terrible idea as no-one should hit anyone, and it's a very uneven match.

The idea that men rush in to protect women is cobblers as well.

People - in general not just men - tend to keep well out of this as they see it as personal and none of their business.

I don't think men tend to have the urge to protect women who aren't "theirs" really, it's all a bit tribal.

As with the boats - what men say they do, and what they like to think they are like, is at odds with their actual behaviour.

Generalising here of course.

Like this:

"Who would have thought, men like avoid death too!"

Yes they do - they don't "let" women and children go first, or anything like that. They want to go first and that happens because generally they are bigger and stronger unless very old / young / disabled. This is seen everywhere that people flee - it tends to be the young men who get away.

The point is that men like to say that they are chivalrous and do the ostentatious door holding but when the chips are down the pregnant woman is elbowed in the face and he's off. The point being that if it doesn't hold when it actually means something - even something as minor as losing a seat on a train - then it really is utterly meaningless.

Ah ok. I must have clearly just imagined all those events over the years

Why are so many women so keen to say that women are just as violent and dangerous as men, despite all evidence to the contrary?

No one has said anything of the sort.

This post has made me laugh 😂 it's gone from someone who watched the apprentice and not liked a comment, to feminism, to chivalry, to which way a door opens, to who leaves a sinking ship first and all the in between ❤️

I think it comes down to "everyone should have the manners and respect for door holding, everyone should say please and thank you and we should teach ALL our children the same in that sense"

Merry Christmas you lovely, entertaining MN community 🎄🎄❤️❤️

**the boat thing.... I wouldn't be on a bastard boat in the first place I can't swim 😂🙈

Good ol MN eh mumof2?

Merry Christmas 🎄

@streetlife70s I love the fact that with most people on here you can have an opinion and debate your side but at the end of the day it's lighthearted and once the post fizzles out you move on and accept the different views ❤️

This post has made me laugh 😂 it's gone from someone who watched the apprentice and not liked a comment, to feminism, to chivalry, to which way a door opens, to who leaves a sinking ship first and all the in between

You understand how conversations work, right?

Vertical

You seem to subscribing to the theory that if you have not witnessed something personally it therefore does not exist.

You have two people here who have worked in the night time economy / city centre bars describing their experiences and you seem reluctant to believe them.

Nobody is stating that women are just as violent men or are responsible for the carnage we see at kick out time in our town centres. Just that there are a sizeable minority of women who are more then capable of being violent to others.

You have a few women on this thread who are saying they've never seen it and they've seen loads of men be violent.

This was in response to someone saying they were surprised at how willing women are to hit men.

Obviously none of the women who have responded by saying it's not nearly so common so why bring it to the forefront, are saying that women are literally incapable of violence. That would be a bonkers thing to claim. As bonkers as claiming that women are as violent as men at a population level.

@SnowGlitter yes, I wasn't saying it was a bad thing I was just saying how far it's gone. I wasn't meaning on offending or anything I was just making a light hearted statement regarding it! I do love the way it goes on here and some time the randomness and change of topic (not here just in general) makes me chuckle that's all