To think ladies first has no place these days

[Idreamofalandrover]

They've used it twice on the apprentice tonight, why? We aren't in the 50s anymore!

? no-one should be slapping anyone at school! What on earth?

If it's primary school, the girls are often bigger than the boys so I'd say that if a great big girl wallops a much smaller boy that's worse than a boy hitting a girl who is roughly the same size.

"Slapping" is weird though kids tend to hit, men hit, "slapping" is something that women do on the TV on things like Eastenders and Dynasty, I'm not sure it happens in real life much, especially between kids!

So we are equal, but we need more privileges, more rights

Should men be told that they are 'good mannered' if they hold the door open SPECIFICALLY for women?

Personally, DS knows that it's good manners to hold doors open / let others through regardless of if they are men or women.

Your post makes no sense LaPompadour

No one is pushing an agenda or wanting to be victims of the patriarchy

I do want equality.

I challenge the disparity I see in the way boys and girls are treated/disciplined whenever I see it.

You are right, I have heard people say, "I've told him he should never hit a girl" and I always correct them to "actually, he shouldn't ever hit anyone".

We are equal, but we are not treated as such. And we should be. The only way we can address that is to call out sexist attitudes whenever we see/hear them regardless of who appears to be suffering/benefitting from it at that moment.

I very strongly believe that men and women have a lot to gain from true equality of the sexes.

Is this the idea that women can and do go around slapping men round the face with impunity while poor men if they even breathe in the direction of a woman go to prison?

While in fact men are categorically, statistically way more violent than women and also categorically statistically it's not uncommon for them to be violent towards women.

Is this the thing where the men on the internet gleefully say "Ha! Women said they wanted to be equal, that means I can punch them in the face!" which is a weird thing to say whichever way you look at it.

Do men need to have codes of "chivalry" to suppress their desire to actually treat us badly? Because that's what those men on the internet say - that without "chivalry" there's nothing to stop them punching us in the face

Whole thing is fucked really and it's definitely not women's fault!

I thought your thread was referring to ‘ladies first’ in a titanic style scenario which I agree doesn’t have any place in a modern society

I always thought that holding doors open was on account of the ornate ladies clothing in bygone days, where the hem of a skirt was more than an arms length from the body (and it was probably difficult to raise an arm) ?

Do many men walk on the outside of the pavement these days ?

Do men need to have codes of "chivalry" to suppress their desire to actually treat us badly?

Didn't "chivalry" cover a knights obligations to everyone of a lower rank ?

Titanic stype scenario was "women and children first" not "ladies first".

In real life the men all go first anyway, it's "survival of the fittest" and the young strong men get out and the older people, children and yes any women who are smaller/weaker and disabled people drown.

I dunno about men walking on the outside of the pavement LurkingHusband but I’ve not stepped in a puddle for years.

There’s always a man laying his anorak over it for me. Makes me feel special.

lurking

My dad does

Walk on the outside of the pavement i mean

It has meant the odd little dance and me having to explain to the children why their grandpa keeps dodging round them to get to the road side of the pavement

I do it with my kids, I put them on the inside. Not because of mud splashing but in case a car mounts the kerb.

I have met men who prefer to walk on the outside when they were with me.

What would you do if you arrived at the door first? Would you open it and hold it open for them? Or would you still wait for them to open it for you?

Well, we'd arrive at the door together in all probability. If I were way ahead, then I'd open it myself and go in.

And he always opens the car door

Which means you end up walking really slowly while the 70 year old gets to your door as quick as he can

Well, we'd arrive at the door together in all probability. If I were way ahead, then I'd open it myself and go in

What if there was someone coming towards you from the other direction and you got to the door first?

Go through and hold the door open.
Go through and give them the 'door' so they can carry on
Wait till they open the door for you.

It’s lovely. I kind of expect a well mannered man to open the door for me. If they don’t it’s no big deal but I do think it’s rude. I feel for men, life must be very confusing at times

Exactly this

saga

Which way does the door open?

Does this door opening stuff really happen to people in RL? Because I just open the door (unless it’s a penis operated one in which case i’d have to wait for a man because I don’t have a penis) and hold it open for the person I’m with or for people who appear to be unable to easily hold a door open (people with buggies/crutches/dogs/sticks whatever) and make sure I don’t slam it in the next person’s face by letting them get hold of it before I let go.

So many straw men on this thread it’s like a scarecrow convention.

What if there was someone coming towards you from the other direction and you got to the door first?

I think we're at crossed purposes here. I'm not talking about how I would deal with strangers and doors. If someone is coming the other way, I tend to open the door and allow them through first, if practical: that happens regardless of their gender.

I'm talking about the situation, possibly on a date, with me and a guy. In such a scenario, I would like it were he to open the restaurant door for me so that I could enter first. I mean, it's me who's likely dressed to kill; the other diners really haven't come to see him

willowept

Presumably you have read all the other responses which have explained it well enough, but in case you haven't; it is sexist because it making a person's gender an issue in something that has nothing to do with gender. Women are capable of opening doors, they are capable of going second. And men's lives are no less important in an emergency situation. It works both ways.

It is a nice thing when anyone opens a door for anyone. I'm sure those men who you hang back for so they open the door would feel equally as nice if just once you stepped forward, opened a door and said "after you"

I really need to know which way the door is opening

Its really pivotal

Some people here would be crap contestants on the crystal maze.

any women who are smaller/weaker and disabled people drown.

As do smaller/weaker men I'm sure. But they aren't thought of in a "ladies First" scenario.

So, elderly men go behind younger, fitter women? Disabled men go behind able bodied women?

"Women and children first" makes the assumption that women are vulnerable just because they are women. And that's just not true.

I don't mind ladies first, having the door opened for me, etc. I think it's nice. Having said that, I open doors for people all the time, men and women. I'd offer my seat on the bus for an older man too. It's just nice to think of others.

If a man says "ladies first", my response would be "thank you".

Emergency situation is tricky.

Women are more likely to be pregnant / have babes in arms. Also more likely to be the main carer for children. In the past it wasn't "women first" it was "women and children" on the basis that they tend to come as a package. This was related to both gender role and also the physical differences that were amplified by the gendered dress codes - if you're wearing a tight corset and multiple layers of heavy clothes and you get thrown into some water then you're going to have trouble however strong you are .

As things evolve with society and our understanding of who is vulnerable changes, then so these rules need to change.

I would say again though that in real life in emergencies generally all bets are off, and the people who get out are the young, the fit, and if there's pushing and shoving, possibly the larger males. The vulnerable, older, disabled, children and so forth are the ones who get left. The men who are holding the doors open for laydees aren't generally doing the same when there's a fire at their backs. Yes there are heroes but they come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, it's not a sex specific trait.

If a man says "ladies first", my response would be "thank you".

Well so would mine.

But I wouldn't be in a relationship with them...