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To think ladies first has no place these days

402 replies

Idreamofalandrover · 17/12/2017 22:20

They've used it twice on the apprentice tonight, why? We aren't in the 50s anymore!

OP posts:
Eliza9917 · 18/12/2017 15:49

@snowglitter of course I would do these things for someone else, I'm perfectly capable of doing all these things myself and for other people.

And no, I wouldn't think badly of anyone who let me do things for them.

SnowGlitter · 18/12/2017 15:50

I don't see being 'feminine' as a sign of weakness, but I'm not standing for being judged negatively because I like a pint of plum porter either!

SheGotBetteDavisEyes · 18/12/2017 15:51

Good manners DOES NOT HAVE TO BE SEX SPECIFIC

Yep ^

SnowGlitter · 18/12/2017 15:53

And no, I wouldn't think badly of anyone who let me do things for them.

So we agree then?

Because I don't think that men shouldn't show good manners to women, just that they shouldn't show good manners to women simply because they are women. And they shouldn't push past a woman (rude) in order to do something 'gentlemanly'. And they should be gracious enough to accept similar good manners from women too.

g1itterati · 18/12/2017 15:53

It's the confidence to accept that in some ways, men and women are different, that this tends to create a certain dynamic and to be ok with that. Life would be very boring if we were all genderless drones.

SnowGlitter · 18/12/2017 15:53

Or good manners shouldn't be sex specific.

SnowGlitter · 18/12/2017 15:55

It's the confidence to accept that in some ways, men and women are different, that this tends to create a certain dynamic and to be ok with that.

So what if that confidence results in a woman behaving in the 'unladylike' ways you, your husband and his friends disapprove of?

And you haven't answered my question about how those behaviours are regarded in men either.

Because if you dislike what you consider to be 'boorish' behaviours in men and women than that is fair enough, but if you will accept behaviours in and from men, but not from women, why is that?

g1itterati · 18/12/2017 15:59

Well no, I wouldn't want to hang out with "boorish" men or women. Why would I?

I was never interested in men who treat me as one of their mates. I find it boring and an instant turn off.

sagamartha · 18/12/2017 16:01

I'd love to know how you explain 'ladies first' to a 4 year old boy at a party when a boy and a girl both have the present.

It does create a difference between boys and girls.

Surely the same tactics used to solve the situation if 2 boys or 2 girls were holding a the parcel should be used?

(How do you resolve the situation if 2 children are holding the parcel?)

Just saying 'ladies first' teaches nothing useful.

MargaretCavendish · 18/12/2017 16:02

Life would be very boring if we were all genderless drones.

Why would we be 'drones' if we were genderless? If I try to list the things that make people I know interesting, fun or individual very, very few of them are gendered.

SnowGlitter · 18/12/2017 16:03

Well no, I wouldn't want to hang out with "boorish" men or women. Why would I?

So what about men who get a bit drunk and use bad language in the course of normal discourse?

MargaretCavendish · 18/12/2017 16:05

I was never interested in men who treat me as one of their mates. I find it boring and an instant turn off.

And I have absolutely no interest in men who don't treat me as they would a friend. But then I also have no interest in men who don't have female friends, or who are in any way 'laddish'. I would guess I'd have as little interest in your husband or your marriage as you'd have to mine.

Gosh, it's almost as if women aren't all the same, isn't it?

SnowGlitter · 18/12/2017 16:05

Actually, the correct resolution to the pass the parcel thing is the person who had it last who hasn't yet let go of it.

or

The person it is being passed to who already has their hands on it.

It doesn't matter as long as the rule is consistently applied. Always expecting the boys to pass it to the girls is unfair.

But the decision should never be made on whether they are boys or girls.

sagamartha · 18/12/2017 16:07

But the decision should never be made on whether they are boys or girls

THIS

g1itterati · 18/12/2017 16:09

To be honest Snow, my DH is not someone who drinks to get drunk. In 16 years, I think I've only seen him slightly drunk on whiskey twice, but he can always act reasonably normally. I've no interest in being in that pub culture where it's only a good night if someone ends up flat on their face vomiting. It's just not my scene - men or women. What's the point? The last time I saw it was at uni.

AsMenDclaredWomenTheirInferior · 18/12/2017 16:11

@SheGotBetteDavisEyes

"I like old fashioned manners. My husband has them and it makes me feel cherished"
Don't want to burst your bubble but?
Chivalry is NOT dead it's just reserved for those women who DESERVE it apparently.

Chivalry according to men, is men doing women a favour, a special favour and only for those women they fancy but the ones they don't fancy they will happily slam the door in their faces and get a real kick from treating women like that and see it as a little victory for themselves and their like minded bro''s.

Women who are not attractive to men will know the true nature of men better than anyone else
because men don't hide from those women their disdain for them or restrain themselves from collectively openly expressing it and often other women who are in awe of those types of men and who vainly welcome their fullest attention, will join in with them to gleefully pulverise and smash down the self esteem of those women their manly heroes loathe.

The explanation men give us for "Chivalry" is.
It's the combination of qualities expected of an ideal knight, namely courage, honour, courtesy, justice, & readiness to help the weak!?

"OMG WOW!"

But if you examine that claim closely all those qualities men revere in the art of chivalry and espouse are what women have always had in abundance and for most women those qualities come naturally to them because most women have a conscience and a predisposed concern to nurture and protect others?

So it must be that men got their chivalrous ideas from women because men wouldn't normally employ them, not even around each other unless specifically told to.
Yes to most men, those qualities do not come naturally to them and they have to be cajoled into acting that way with an offer of reward at the end of it.
So what kind of reward would tempt men to act in that way one wonders?
*"Self flattery & self promotion, probably! Vanity.

*"Ooh look at me bro's, I am putting myself out and doing a woman a favour, hey bro's pat me on the back and give me my gold star and now she owes me big time & soon I will be calling in that favour, hoohaha!"

So the idea of chivalry is female but men will never admit that and they try to follow in women's footsteps, but most men don't actually do it for altruistic reasons but do it for their own ulterior motives.
In other words
"What is in it for them"
and if there is nothing in it for them, then they aren't interested.

When men's fanciful idea of their own self worth is scrutinised, men and the image they hold of themselves as brave heroic self sacrificing martyrs quickly evaporates into thin air and men then land with a heavy thud and a loathing back into what we women call reality! ..

SnowGlitter · 18/12/2017 16:13

Well there you go then. So your expected standards of behaviour are the same for men and women, g1itterati. Yet your post upthread suggested it was only women who are subject to the expectations.

SnowGlitter · 18/12/2017 16:14

Women who are not attractive to men will know the true nature of men better than anyone else

Yes, very much so!

Overthehillsandfaraway8 · 18/12/2017 16:16

I like it and i think it shows respect and manners.

g1itterati · 18/12/2017 16:19

No of course both women and men should both have good manners, that goes without saying. And if you're not the kind of woman into "getting lashed" or whatever, you probably aren't into men with that kind of laddish behaviour either.

But I do expect extra things of DH because he's a man that I don't expect from my female friends - e.g. chivalrous behaviour. He wouldn't expect me to act like his male friends by the same token - why would he?

sagamartha · 18/12/2017 16:20

I like it and i think it shows respect and manners

And how should women show respect and manners towards men?

sagamartha · 18/12/2017 16:21

But I do expect extra things of DH because he's a man that I don't expect from my female friends - e.g. chivalrous behaviour

And what behaviour does your DH expect of women that he doesn't expect of men?

YorkieDorkie · 18/12/2017 16:22

By saying thank you? I don't see the issue.

sagamartha · 18/12/2017 16:22

He wouldn't expect me to act like his male friends by the same token - why would he

So he doesn't expect women to behave like men?

Does he have an issue with women who behave like men?

SheGotBetteDavisEyes · 18/12/2017 16:27

AsMenDclaredWomenTheirInferior

You appear to started your comment with a quote incorrectly assigned to me?

I quoted that quote, I didn't make it.

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