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Original poster

To think ladies first has no place these days

402 replies

Idreamofalandrover · 17/12/2017 22:20

They've used it twice on the apprentice tonight, why? We aren't in the 50s anymore!

OP posts:
Eliza9917 · 18/12/2017 14:55

SnowGlitter
Why do the feminists have to spoil everything?

Because some of us would rather do things on our own than wait for someone to do it for us.

No one says women have to wait for men to do things for them, but when they do, its nice.

LloydSpinjago · 18/12/2017 14:56

@LloydSpinjago
The Art Of Chivalry and the Ultimate catch!!.

Sorry I don't follow. What do you mean?

SnowGlitter · 18/12/2017 15:01

No one says women have to wait for men to do things for them, but when they do, its nice.

Would you do these things for the man though, if the opportunity arose and it were appropriate to do so?

Or would you feel it was the man's role?

Would you think badly of a man who, for example, allowed you to hold the door open for him?

SnowGlitter · 18/12/2017 15:05

And surely that's just that it's nice when people are considerate and do things for other people to ease the load, or just show they were thinking of them.

It's the expectation that a man will do it because he's a man that's the problem for me.

If someone offered to help me, held a door open for me, then I would appreciate it. But I wouldn't appreciate or expect it any more from a man than I would a woman. And I have encoutered men who are quite rude if you try doing it for them.

g1itterati · 18/12/2017 15:13

When I had a birthday party for DD recently and she's only 9, we played a version of pass-the-parcel and if there was a dispute over who the gift had landed on, the boys were saying "ladies first" and giving it to the girl. Same with the piñata, they let the girls go first. These is 9 year olds.

My DH has always held doors for women, but no need to make a song and dance about it. I'll be honest, he probably wouldn't want to be with a woman who made a fuss about that kind of thing, or who would use bad language in normal discourse, get overly drunk and make a scene, etc. He would find that unattractive, as would I. The same goes for the vast majority of men I know and they're all in their 40s. So I guess it's horses for courses.

sagamartha · 18/12/2017 15:17

When I had a birthday party for DD recently and she's only 9, we played a version of pass-the-parcel and if there was a dispute over who the gift had landed on, the boys were saying "ladies first" and giving it to the gir

What do you think of that?

VerticalBlinds · 18/12/2017 15:19

It's each to their strengths isn't it.

DH and I are quite traditional in physique so if there's something that needs getting from a top cupboard it's a job for him, if it's something to do with squeezing though a narrow gap then I'll step right up!

The bins thing used to make more sense when you had to carry them, with wheely bins it's easier but still can be heavy especially if there's steps... So as out of my husband and me, he's better placed to do things that require strength, so I would be better placed than his dad for example. It's more to do with who is best placed out of the ones available, than assigning unwavering rules to people based not on their skills and attributes but on what's in their pants. And that's the whole problem with sexism isn't it - women being told they can't / shouldn't / won't be able to do stuff just because they're women, which is why some notice the small things (doors) as well as the big things - it's all linked into the same problem. Benevolent sexism is still sexism.

What does piss me off is when he puts things that we use a lot right at the top - he's just not thinking. Wasn't there someone on here who knew a man who put up the "shelves of patriarchy" - he was v proud and rather upset when the woman involved got home and pointed out she couldn't reach them Grin

g1itterati · 18/12/2017 15:20

I think that's great that they have good manners and good for them.

VerticalBlinds · 18/12/2017 15:21

Also notice that some men when confronted with a woman who says "no thanks, I'll do it myself" about get pretty pissed off. They act as if it's an affront to their masculinity. These are not men who just want to "help" but ones who enjoy viewing women as unable / inferior. The ones who get upset if a girl beats a boy at a game. We all know the ones.

crazycatgal · 18/12/2017 15:24

I'm a woman and will hold the door open for anyone male or female. I've had this with other people, most people male or female will hold a door open for someone.

I've never actually had a man hold open a door for me and say 'ladies first' and only once have I ever seen a man give up a seat for a woman. I'm not saying that chivalry should exist - just that it doesn't anymore.

derxa · 18/12/2017 15:25

Stop talking about the 1950s as some sort of shorthand for things you don't like. You have no real idea of what it was like then, of what women did or how people had to live. Exactly.

sagamartha · 18/12/2017 15:28

I think that's great that they have good manners and good for them.

Why is it good manners to let a girl have a prize instead of the boy?

g1itterati · 18/12/2017 15:28

I would disagree with that crazycat. I was on the bus with my son yesterday in hideous Westfield traffic and he gave his seat to a woman in her 40s. I didn't have to tell him. He is 14. He is not unusual in this. This kind of thing gets reinforced with them at school.

mumof2sarah · 18/12/2017 15:30

The only thing that really bugs me that could be seen like this with my DP is as follows. He does open the door for me if he gets there first, same with car door and when we have our dates he pulls the chair etc, I love all that, he never makes a fuss about it or makes it seem like it's because I'm a women it's just how he's been raised and seen from his Dad. But he really irritates me when I go to do a flat pack furniture piece (any sort) together and he takes over because "he should be doing that" look mate since I was 12 I've put together my own flat pack furniture and have my own tools (yes they're pink but that's because of an in joke with my best friend) and I could flat pack assemble you under the table 😂😂 in fact once we both put a bed side table together each and mine was perfect, his wobbly 👍🏻 my mum has no interest or tbh ability (she can't fathom instructions for anything) so my dad does all that sort of thing for them and his words are "well sarah I know when my times up on the earth you're gonna be the master of furniture with this lot" ❤️ (my brother and sister take after mum) I suppose that's the only flaw I could perhaps match to this if that makes sense x

VerticalBlinds · 18/12/2017 15:30

I think that the boys giving up their presents to the girls was weird and if it was my party I'd have said no no there's plenty of presents for everyone and done a better job with stopping the music for the rest of the game. the set-up sound like it must've gone boy-girl-boy-girl as well like at a dinner party or something Grin also weird.

The message that gives to both the girls and the boys is crap. No wonder so many men resent women if that's how they've been brought up. And the girls are being taught to expect men to capitulate to them for no reason other than their girls?

Honestly I think that's terrible. I can't see why anyone would think that was desirable behaviour especially. Poor little boys.

SnowGlitter · 18/12/2017 15:35

I'll be honest, he probably wouldn't want to be with a woman who made a fuss about that kind of thing, or who would use bad language in normal discourse, get overly drunk and make a scene, etc. He would find that unattractive, as would I. The same goes for the vast majority of men I know and they're all in their 40s.

Do the men swear/use bad lanuage in normal discourse? Get drunk? Make a scene?

Would you find it unattractive if men did it too? Or is it just women?

If so, why would women be held to different standards of behaviour to men?

I don't swear in normal discourse but I'm not afraid of using bad language for effect when I feel it is appropriate.

I drink beer. In pints. I don't get drunk. I like red wine, but I would prefer a nice real ale if I'm just going to the pub.

Why do the vast majority of men you know in their 40s dislike this? I'm in my 40s and, I have to say, I find some of the attitudes expressed by my peers to be frustratingly prescriptive and restrictive. Surely if the behaviours you describe are unattractive in women (and I agree that they are) then they are also unattractive in men (I think that they are).

I have a huge issue with 'ladylike' behaviours as they largely translate to expectations of behaviour standards based not on the impact on others, or safety or common decency or respect for others, but on the sex of the person displaying them. And that's wrong.

And yes, i am single and happy to be so whilst the men I meet are all such narrow minded sexist oafs.

SnowGlitter · 18/12/2017 15:37

Why is it good manners to let a girl have a prize instead of the boy?

It's not. It's perpetuating damaging gender stereotypes.

RoseWhiteTips · 18/12/2017 15:39

Saying “Ladies first...” may possibly be misconstrued but a man allowing you to enter a door first is nice! Jeez. How can you knock good manners?

mumoffour1716154 · 18/12/2017 15:41

My 4 year old son, always says "ladies first", coming inside or going downstairs. Don't see it as sexist but as politeness

sagamartha · 18/12/2017 15:41

may possibly be misconstrued but a man allowing you to enter a door first is nice! Jeez. How can you knock good manners

If a woman allowed you to enter a door first, that's also good manners.

Good manners DOES NOT HAVE TO BE SEX SPECIFIC.

It's good manners to let other people first if it's easier for them and for you.

sagamartha · 18/12/2017 15:42

My 4 year old son, always says "ladies first", coming inside or going downstairs. Don't see it as sexist but as politenes

If his Dad was coming down the stairs, would he say 'You go first' to him?

g1itterati · 18/12/2017 15:45

There were enough prizes for everyone, but say there was a boy and a girl holding the present when the music stopped, the boy would let the girl have it. One boy said, "ladies first" and then they all did after that.

For what it's worth, I don't need to be the same as a man, physically or behaviour-wise to feel equal. I know I am equal regardless. I don't see being feminine as a sign of weakness, to me it's s strength. You can be equal without being the same. It's having the confidence in who you are that's important.

mumoffour1716154 · 18/12/2017 15:46

@sagamartha I don't know where he has picked it up from. In our household there's no men's or women's tasks etc. I hold door open for hubby, and he likewise for me. Hopefully ds will just develop the good manners for everyone.

VerticalBlinds · 18/12/2017 15:47

So women can be equal by having men give them presents all the time but it's all about inner confidence.... I think....

SnowGlitter · 18/12/2017 15:49

Actually, it's not just enough to have confidence in who you are and feel equal.

The problem is that other people impose their expectations on you, you know like you and your husband and his friends have of women who don't subscribe to the same narrow gender stereotypes as you do?

That's not equality.