To pick my child over my relationship?

[MardyMarie]

I have four children, aged 6, 4, 2 and 2 months. I separated from DP 6 months ago because our home life was intolerable. He was like a spectator living in the home and had little to do with the 'nitty gritty' of family life - ok to play occasionally but no good with illness, bedtime, school and nursery run, bath time, discipline ect. He moved to his mum's on the basis that we'd try and work things out but it's just not working. I love him as a partner but not as a fellow parent and I can't see any way of improving things.

The DC cry and whinge constantly when he's around. They all cling to me and don't listen to him at all. If we go out he'll be desperate to hold the baby because the others just won't cooperate with him whatsoever. I back him up but it's just miserable. When he isn't here, they're well adjusted, happy and play nicely together. He doesn't put any boundaries in place and will do anything to avoid having to tell them off yet despite me always having to be bad cop, they constantly push him away.

They all refuse to be alone or go out alone with him so working on relationships 1:1 isn't an option. It's been tried and they just cry for me the entire time. I have never been able to leave the house without children in almost 7 years and I feel suffocated but they are miserable with him and would be happier with a sitter.

He loves them and wants to see them and I would love for us all to be a family but I can't bear seeing the DC unhappy whenever he's here. AIBU to ask of anyone can think of anything we can do to improve things, or is it going to be a case of having to sacrifice my relationship for the sake of the DCs happiness?

I would say that a 'parenting' course that you attend together would be invaluable. I would also say that you are both giving in to the kids manipulating situations which they will naturally do for as long as they can get away with it. You state that 3 of your kids have said they do not want their dad to come to the farm today. How exactly does a 2 year old tell you that? They must be very articulate. He needs his confidence building and maybe he needs some 1-1 time with each of them to do something nice together. When you are disciplining the children you need to be both singing from the same hymnsheet and backing each other up. Maybe when your husband is around, the kids try to play you off against each other and be more attention seeking which makes the situation more fraught but is not all his fault.

I think it's worth bearing in mind too that the children wanting you may not just be a case of not liking dad. They're all very close in age, each one just two when the next sibling arrived. It's not at all unusual for a young child to become quite clingy with their mum when a new baby comes along, a little bit of jealousy, competing for her attention. Even at age 6. TBH I don't know anyone who hasn't experienced that with DC close together even with a partner who is completely hands on. So it's possible that this very natural reaction to a new arrival has reinforced the feeling that they don't want him, that he's no good with them.

I definitely think if you actually want to stay together as a family (and you may feel you don't want to, I'm not suggesting you should), then counseling and some parenting classes could be hugely helpful.

Can you suggest that he starts doing more 1-1 with the children to try and build more of a relationship with them individually? You can't parent 4 kids at the same time when you don't have the confidence, it's more like riot control and he's not had the time to build those skills with the kids. He's their Dad, is going to be part of their lives and they haven't really got any foundations to build on. I'd go a bit easier on him, stop the family stuff for a bit and let him grow in confidence. My DH said I would take over and undermine him, and he hated it - just because it was quicker and easier for me. I felt terrible when he admitted how it made him feel.
Address your relationship issues separately. This must be really tough on you

My DD has bouts of not wanting dad. She's 10 and over the years has verbalised it as, "he doesn't know how to do things, the doesn't do our routines properly, he doesn't give me enough time to do things, he is grumpy"

DH is at work so I am primary care giver. DD is right, we DO have very good routines, and an understanding/communication style that DH can't match as he is out of the house, working, most days.

I have explained routines to DH, supervised him doing things so he knows how we do stuff, we all agreed that DD should teach DH our routines and explain communication differences when they happen. I will advocate for DD when DH gets grumpy etc.

DD is NOT allowed to dismiss her dad's authority, if there is aproblem we need to discuss it but she has to understand he IS in charge.

It's always a work in progress but ALL relationships should be. I imagine it would have been very different if I'd not stood up for DH against DD's intransigence.

I think people who openly say I have only read your thread title and you should leave him are incredibly disrespectful. To think you could offer advice about something life changing for this person on the basis of the title alone.
I think the reason he tries to help with the baby, e.g. In the cafe is that he lacks any confidence with the other kids. I actually have a shred of sympathy for your partner, he is not a bad person he just lacks some parenting skills.

My ex h was like this. Indifferent to our 2 boys. We were both 30 when we had our first DS.

He wouldn’t help much around the house, didn’t help much with the kids. The kids would scream if I left them and on the rare occasion I did, the house would be a bomb site when I got home. We split in 2005 when the boys were 5 & 3. I felt unsupported in every way. He wasn’t ready to be a dad.

Amazingly he became a brilliant dad because he had to.

I had counselling afterwards and realised that my personality didn’t help the situation really, I was a bit controlling and having a baby/nursery career before I went into teaching made me very confident around babies. Basically I’d just take over if he didn’t do things my way. He must have felt totally sidelined by my behaviour.

He SHOULD have been stronger however and told me to butt out but he rarely did. Why bother if someone can do it better than you?

It made me realise how we were both to blame in our own ways. Our boys are now 18 and 14 and he is a wonderful dad and they love him to bits.

I think people who openly say I have only read your thread title and you should leave him are incredibly disrespectful. To think you could offer advice about something life changing for this person on the basis of the title alone.

I agree Rudi, this is a young family with their whole future ahead of them and while obviously I don't imagine Op will make her decision based on what strangers on the internet say, she is clearly looking for advice. Hugely disrespectful for arrogant arseholes to use her situation just to tick their LTB box as they mosey about MN for their entertainment .

HE needs parenting classes and family counselling regardless of whether ou stay together or not.
If you separate and he does nothing regarding his relationhsip with the dcs, you are basically putting your dcs in a situation where they will loose their dad (because they wont want to go, they will scream and both of you will relent and say ‘well a weekend is too much, let’s do a day.’ And then a day will become half a day etc...).

I think you need to demand that he does something about it and seek some help for himself on how to rebuild his relationship with his dcs.

Your relationship issues are another problem that you need to handle separately. Do you want to live with him or does his ‘wet’ behaviour drives crazy and has destroyed any respect you had for him?
Are the issues in your relationhsip only about the way he is with the dcs or is it more wise spread?

And yes I also agree that there is a need to look at how you react too when he is doing xxx but you dont agree.

Fwiw, H found it very hard to deal with our dcs when they were little. Dc1 has been knows to say he was happy to see his dad going away for work. That H was grumpy etc...

Now that they are teenagers, much more j dependent and have found an activity they all enjoy, they are much closer to each other and things go much more smoothly.
But then I also pushed H to actually be involved with the dcs. Was working every other weekend so they (H and the dcs) had no choice but to get in with it....
We were also in a situation where H was away half of the time so wasn’t as used to my way of doing things etc... I always considered that he might be dojng things different.y, it didn’t mean I was right and he was wrong in his approach.

I think ,he has lost his confidence working away so much....I think your kids are being allowed to pick which parent they prefer to do things for them..I think he should move back in. ASAP..and you should work together to overcome this...they cannot be allowed to scream and shout for you ,when he is dealing with them..that's rediculous and clearly been allowed for some time.your husband sounds like a good man trying to do his best ,he just needs a little kind backup...and your kids need to realise they can not run the show.they are not in charge.you are your husband are.stop pandering to your kids ,and help your husband be the dad he wants to be

It is really hard with toddlers preferring one parent. My DH is very hands on, works from home and is around a lot and my 3yr old still protests most evenings if it is his turn to do her story, I know she absolutely loves him but it still happens, our son was the same at that age. My DH understands this and just gets on with it and we both just reiterate the routine. She always calms down and goes to sleep happy. So, all children do this and it is often easier to give in than go through the strop but at this age I think it is so important for the children to know their parents are in control and if possible a unit working together.

But I have a friend with a partner who is very under confident with his abilities and he does tend to give up on any hard parenting and hand over to her. I think it is manageable with one child (if annoying) and he does have a good relationship with his daughter but I could see a different dynamic developing with more children in the frame and the competitive element children can have that a poster mentioned above.

I think you need to get some outside help and I hope your DH will engage with it. Even if it ends up with you splitting he will hopefully be able to parent better.

I have some sympathy with him here. I am the working parent and am regularly out of the house for 12 hours. DH is a sahp and he and dds have a very settled and structured existence which suits them all as they thrive on routine. I am not like that and found it very hard to pick up parenting on the weekends. I'd make their sandwiches wrong or would discipline in a different way etc. It was hard and I felt excluded, especially by dd1. There were times when I'd therefore stop trying.

Then I realised this was a bit shit and dh and I had a chat. I stopped being passive, he unclenched. He is also a fierce defender of me when the dds complain about me not being around/doing things differently and how our family works. This made me feel valued and therefore more engaged.

It's not perfect but it's better. I suspect this is a milder experience than yours and family counselling seems a great idea but my point is we pulled it back together.

Im sorry but it sounds like you are the spectator and judge his every move.
You are saying he is no good at parenting etc. But never give him the chance to do off his own back. You jump and tell him what should be done.
He is clearly nervous as whatever he does they run back to you and you tell him what should have been done instead.

If the kids have a meltdown when you leave then so be it. Its his job to pick up the pieces and figure out ways of calming th situation. Not for the kids to win their demands by refusing to stay with him. They can only refuse and get their way if it is allowed.

As for the cafe situation. Once you told him to deal with it - it should have been left for him to deal with. You could have reassured him that 2 year olds will try snd get back to mammy when they have been corrected.
Not used that as a way to confirm that he is indeed useless. Because i bet he is not.

Just a thought,but I'm thinking the kids being so close together in age are all viying for mums attention,so when-dad is there is another person they have to fight for your attention with,especially if your having discussions in their earshot,not that they understand,but it takes attention away from the kids ,so they are playing up when they see him...personally I think the kids are running rings around the pair you,and you'd be mad to kid him out,you are going to need all the help you can get,trust me I've four kids as well x

Pair of you.....kick not kid

As there father though if you were to split up they would have to spend time with him alone? So surely the problems wouldn't be solved.

Yes to parenting classes.

OP, the partner but of his life is optional, the parenting part isn’t.

You've made a rod for your own back. By giving in to your children every time they cry for you, never letting him be alone with them, he has no real relationship with them. Surely this can't have come as a surprise?!

It would be remarkable if given how you've (hopefully inadvertently) undermines him for the last 6 years, he had a decent rapport with them. You've put him in the role of spectator and he's allowed you to do so.

I think you both need to work on your parenting skills tbh. And this really isn't something to split up over.

If you missed this issue in the process of having 4 kids I would be concerned that you may be missing something else perhaps more sinister? Obvs just going by your scant info...only you would / should know the answer really.

I have an 8 yr old GS - he is an absolute angel for me and GD, no trouble whatsoever.

The child that my daughter and S-I-L describe, is a child that I do not recognise at all.

As soon as he comes to us (we have him regular at the weekends and school holidays, very often over night. Always have done) he is smiling and happy.

DD tells me that within minutes of arriving home, from us or from school, he can be a right little sod. Not always though. Mum and dad both work full-time, in demanding jobs. DD was only 19 when she had DS and she has learnt A LOT. Now expecting DC No 2 next summer.

He is very well behaved at school as well, and for his other Grandparents etc.

I tell DD that she was exactly the same when she was little....she KNEW how to play the game...... :)

Kids will be kids. Simples.

The posters kids have learned to be brats, spoiled brats. Hopefully they will grow out of it.

Of course they 'play up' when dad is around!! They have been allowed to, with the full support and encouragement of the mother.

It's what kids will do.....if allowed to.

Nowt sinister or unusual. Mother just needs to MAN UP to her delightful, but spoiled children, instead of always giving in to them.

What difference would it make? If you end your relationship he would most likely get 50/50 custody. He would still need to learn to parent the children.

I really feel sorry for him. You need to make him have the children more, not less. And on his own so he can build confidence without you pulling his parenting to pieces.

In time the children will get used to him and his style. They are crying as he is so nervous, they sense that and re act to it.

MardyMarie - you describe a situation of your joint creation. If in 7-years you have never been away from your children, then that is not entirely your dp's fault. It sounds as though you have to a certain extent created a narrative for yourself where you are indispensable and the only person capable of dealing properly with your children. If your children and dp react to that by ending up believing you, it's not really surprising if you are there all the time subconsciously advertising your beliefs in everything you do and in the way you react to everything. It's normal for children to punish parents by saying they don't want to be with them if they feel they are not around enough; and it's hardly the end of the world if your dd cried when your dp finally got her back to her seat in the restaurant. It's unbearably smug of you to be so convinced you would have been bloody perfect and nobody would have been upset if you hadn't had the baby to deal with. Talk about an undermining, unhelpful attitude. I think you and your dp could both do with some counselling.

I would definitely get counselling.
From the brief information youve given, i dont think this is all your partners fault.
Its took you to have 4 children with this man to realise you dont like him as a ci parent?
Something fishy i would get famiky counselling and i think everyone will benefit from it

My ex was also like this, taking a back seat in parenting, letting me do everything because I was "better" at it, never getting up in the night or putting the children to bed etc because they wanted me, not him. It was exhausting. When we split up, he didn't even ask for custody and now hardly sees his DC; when he does he doesn't parent them at all.
I don't think this his your fault, he is the one who has to want to make changes. Parenting classes or counselling might help, but only if he is willing.

My comment wasn't an accusation btw though it might read like it on inspection!