To pick my child over my relationship?

[MardyMarie]

I have four children, aged 6, 4, 2 and 2 months. I separated from DP 6 months ago because our home life was intolerable. He was like a spectator living in the home and had little to do with the 'nitty gritty' of family life - ok to play occasionally but no good with illness, bedtime, school and nursery run, bath time, discipline ect. He moved to his mum's on the basis that we'd try and work things out but it's just not working. I love him as a partner but not as a fellow parent and I can't see any way of improving things.

The DC cry and whinge constantly when he's around. They all cling to me and don't listen to him at all. If we go out he'll be desperate to hold the baby because the others just won't cooperate with him whatsoever. I back him up but it's just miserable. When he isn't here, they're well adjusted, happy and play nicely together. He doesn't put any boundaries in place and will do anything to avoid having to tell them off yet despite me always having to be bad cop, they constantly push him away.

They all refuse to be alone or go out alone with him so working on relationships 1:1 isn't an option. It's been tried and they just cry for me the entire time. I have never been able to leave the house without children in almost 7 years and I feel suffocated but they are miserable with him and would be happier with a sitter.

He loves them and wants to see them and I would love for us all to be a family but I can't bear seeing the DC unhappy whenever he's here. AIBU to ask of anyone can think of anything we can do to improve things, or is it going to be a case of having to sacrifice my relationship for the sake of the DCs happiness?

The children's reaction to their father seems quite extreme. Have you considered seeing a child psychologist? I think in your shoes I'd want to be sure they weren't reacting against something that he had done or that had happened when they were in his care. It might not be something an adult would even recognise as serious - children can't always understand adults' actions and can become traumatised by something they've misunderstood - but it might be, and having outside help in articulating their feelings might give you a way forward.

Assuming this is just an unfortunate dynamic that's developed through his absence and inconsistency, I still think a professional perspective could be useful, as often people in families are too close to the situation to objectively analyse how best to improve things.

I agree with PP that if you still value the marriage you should work to get the family functioning better - not least because you sound overworked, stressed and knackered and would probably feel less embattled with more solid input from your husband. You also deserve a fulfulling relationship and if you love your other half, that's worth saving.

There's an alarming amount of posts suggesting that this is the OPs fault...
Yes both parents have a level of responsibility as far as the whole situation goes but this is a man that has zero relationship with his children and is making zero effort to establish one. I'd say the majority of that lies squarly on his shoulders.
Why did you have four children with this man is unhelpful and futile as it's a case of stable doors and bolting horses. Why is the question not why did he have four children with you if he had no intention of parenting them?
As far as what was he supposed to do regarding the cafe situation other than sit the 2 year old back down, umm how about disciplining her? Teaching her about danger? Stopping her from climbing on mummy's lap? Removing her from the situation for a few minutes? He is the one that chose not to deal with that situation properly, not OP.
She didn't suggest for one minute that she would stop him seeing them yet some PP are talking about rights etc. Unless I'm reading this completely the wrong way, OP deciding whether to remain in the relationship not whether to flee the country with the children
This story isn't even completely unusual. There are thousands of threads here about partners not pulling their weight within thin home be it housework or children related. This just happens to have manifested itself in a breakdown in the relationship between a parent as his children. So as I said before, both parents have a level of responsibility but if he cares about his family at all then he is the one that should be fighting tooth and nail to fix it.

navygold The father worked away from home for five days a week, how is he supposed to parent and be involved in the nitty gritty when he was away from home. He still works long hours. Its expensive bringing up four children, so he needs to work.
The OP is the SAHP and was in my opinion responsible for making sure there was regular contact with the children while the father was working away for example Skype at bed time. Engendering a feeling of family.
OPs DH sounds like a hardworking man who has not had the time to be a hands on dad and therefore lacks the neccesary skills.
The parents were as bad as each other in the cafe and its obvious the child has been set no boundaries by the mother either.
I do believe the OP has allowed the children to manipulate the situation.

Totally agree with @Poshindevon that's spot on

Posh is spot on!

Useless man = woman's fault. Again. Should have worked harder to make him be better love. After all, he's been working hard while youve just been hanging around with 4 kids. What's a poor bloke to do? How is he meant to know how to parent without someone with a uterus telling him?

My dp must have be unusual in that he has learned how to parent over the course of our children's lives through a mixture of intuition, trial and error, and communication. Much in the same way that women do.

If this man can't or won't do that why is it the woman's fault?

What do you say to the children when they're rude to their dad?

For example if my six year old said to me that she didn't want daddy to come out with us I would look shocked/cross and say 'Of course Daddy is coming with us! What an unkind thing to say!' And certainly be having conversations with the older two about how it makes Daddy feel and how we should treat people how we want to be treated etc. If you aren't doing this every time they bad mouth him in some way then you are backing up their opinion.

Don't get me wrong, he certainly needs to attend some parenting classes at a minimum, but you need to back him up to the max if you genuinely want to get past this.

welshgirlwannabe
Unlike many MNs I am not a man hater. Your post was very harsh. Its not the OPs fault her husband does not have natural parenting skills. I see many parents, men and women who are useless parents and stumble along.
What I and other posters are saying is that while the husband was working away /long hours the OP has allowed children to manipulate her life so she has no time to herself. The father wants to be a parent but he is prevented from doing so.
They both need to put this right

I think you'll do more for your dcs in the long run if you help build and nurture a relationship with their father. What you have described in the cafe was simply a power struggle. If you both get on the same side the kids may start to come round, and besides they are still so incredibly young. I was my dcs favourite parent for a long time when they were wee! And I'm sure many parents have at some point thought things are just easier when the other parent isn't around. I've been a single parent and co-parent, the latter is often harder.

Hmm... don't know about this one. It seems like the DC don't really like him. Obviously I don't know the backstory, but I feel a bit sorry for him, if I'm honest.

welshgirl
Exaggeration. It’s not what all posters are saying at all.

Could there be any chance of abuse when you aren't around? Sorry to escalate, but it should be thought about, particularly if they seem afraid of holding his hand or being picked up by him.

Poshindevon - how has she "allowed" 4 children to manipulate her so that she has no time to herself? Isn't that what children do?

For example I have a toddler and work. If it wasn't for my partner being a useful member of the parenting team I would have no time to myself bar a few tired hours in the evening. It's not manipulation on my child's part: it is life with small children.

I know not all posters are blaming the op, but all fair few are and I don't really get why. Why is it her responsibility to make sure the kids like their dad? As a parent wouldn't you be devastated if your kids didn't want to spend time with you (not teens!) And do everything in your power to change the situation?

Poor guy. They are not not liking him, they are not used to him. That's normal considering the situation, but please give him a chance. My kids would want nothing to do with their dad until they were quite older. My DD used to scream the place down if I left her with him for 15 minutes. He used to be so hurt and blame me, but the reason is that he worked long hours away and as she had health issues, I was her main carer and she was used to me comforting her. It got gradually better, until she turned about 8 and suddenly, her father became God and could do no wrong! She's now 18 and certainly a daddy's girl.

It's unfair to judge their relationship at this stage of their young age. What you need to do is give him a chance to parent even if they don't like it at first. It will take time. The best way to do it is arrange an activity for your 6yo that he will take them to. It will take time for them to learn to bond with him and him with them, but for god sake, don't separate because of this, you are very very wrong if you think that your kids will be happier with their dad not living with them long term.

Really odd. I worked a lot more than 9 to 5 when my 3 were young - they were glued to the window waiting for me to come back.

It sounds like early on he and the children didn't really get to bond. It's natural that small children will prefer to be with their main carer but I wonder if that knocked his confidence and caused him to step back a bit in terms of parenting?

It's far from ideal of course but I can see that someone might feel "I never get it right and only upset them". Unfortunately that means the other person picks up the slack, you wouldn't have felt like you had much choice really. But then the "roles" are just reinforced - mum does it all out of what she sees as necessity and dad is on the periphery, both thinking he's a bit useless so both carrying on in their "role".

I don't think you're to blame for this Op but it might not be as simple as he's lazy or can't be bothered being a parent although obviously you know him and we don't. I think a parenting class could be useful for both of you if you both really want to make some positive changes.

There must be some dynamic you are not seeing. I think family counseling could really help you all find out what that is and address it.

I knew the OP would get the blame for this.

Regardless of whether you have been inadvertently undermining him or not, for you it is easier with 4 children, one of which is 2 months, do do this on your own whilst he is at his mums?!!

Sounds like you no longer want to be in a relationship with him.

I think family or couple counselling sounds like a good idea to work out what you both want.

What does he want?
To move back In?
To be more involved?
To stay at him mums?

Small chance they are jealous of any time you spend with him around, so they want to take up all your attention and time, tense cling to you and are not great at listening to you.

Do you back him up and get them to follow through with what he asks of them?

My husband works long hours, works abroad some months (offshore without phone signal) and sometimes works weekends. Yet as soon as he comes home he is glued to his DS. Ive just said to him that as I am at home on maternity leave, should it be my responsibly for his contact with his child? He just laughed.

Yep, I agree with welshgirl. He sounds so wet round the years, I'd want to shake him. My dh had no clue about kids when our first was born. He spent loads of time with her, learning on the job. By the time number 3 came he was (and still is) a pro. There's no reason at all why the op's partner should need help and direction - after 4 bloody kids!! - When his 2 year old is running riot in a cafe. He should have been on that without a second thought. If he wants to fix things then he needs to do it himself, not keep passively looking to the op to help him.

The children seem to have been given too much power in your household which has left them nervous and clingy as they don't have adults setting emotional boundaries. The children are dictating you can't leave the house without them, dictating you can;t have a relationship with their father - this is not healthy and good for your children and is not helping them. be happy and confident.

You and your DP need to be the adults and make the decisions in your house. You need to establish your self as a separate person and your DP needs to establish himself as a parent, do you have any family members you can rely on for advice and support?

Splitting up is not the answer as the family courts etc Would expect them to have access visits and a relationship.
I think you both need parenting classes. Him on how to parent and you because it’s going to be hard to support him in this when the easier option as you’ve found is to do it yourself.
Start by speaking to the HV as the youngest is still young enough to offer access to these types of help.

Yes to family therapy. Something is going on here that isn't immediately obvious, much less so when you are actually in the situation. And yes, as painful as it is - and I hope it won't be that - you do need to rule out the possibility of abuse or mistreatment. These are extreme reactions and not simply caused by him working long hours.

Assuming abuse has been ruled out, I don't think this is as simple as 'OP lets dc manipulate and doesn't back dh up as a father' or 'useless father needs to come to grips with his own kids'. It's possibly a self-perpetuating combination of the two. And I think it's very likely that the whole dynamic is being augmented by the general stress levels in the house - which with so many children with such small gaps are presumably quite high.

And for those criticising posters asking why she had so many children with him, while obviously she can't and presumably wouldn't want to undo that now, I think it's worth both of them reflecting on their expectations as they made the decisions they did. Why did they want dc, why did they want four, what was their idea of family life?