To pick my child over my relationship?

[MardyMarie]

I have four children, aged 6, 4, 2 and 2 months. I separated from DP 6 months ago because our home life was intolerable. He was like a spectator living in the home and had little to do with the 'nitty gritty' of family life - ok to play occasionally but no good with illness, bedtime, school and nursery run, bath time, discipline ect. He moved to his mum's on the basis that we'd try and work things out but it's just not working. I love him as a partner but not as a fellow parent and I can't see any way of improving things.

The DC cry and whinge constantly when he's around. They all cling to me and don't listen to him at all. If we go out he'll be desperate to hold the baby because the others just won't cooperate with him whatsoever. I back him up but it's just miserable. When he isn't here, they're well adjusted, happy and play nicely together. He doesn't put any boundaries in place and will do anything to avoid having to tell them off yet despite me always having to be bad cop, they constantly push him away.

They all refuse to be alone or go out alone with him so working on relationships 1:1 isn't an option. It's been tried and they just cry for me the entire time. I have never been able to leave the house without children in almost 7 years and I feel suffocated but they are miserable with him and would be happier with a sitter.

He loves them and wants to see them and I would love for us all to be a family but I can't bear seeing the DC unhappy whenever he's here. AIBU to ask of anyone can think of anything we can do to improve things, or is it going to be a case of having to sacrifice my relationship for the sake of the DCs happiness?

He sounds very immature. If your children don't feel safe with him then he's a pretty awful father. Either he sorts out some parenting classes and acknowledges that he needs to up his game or you simply call it a day with him.
I'd call it a day personally, if I was you...your children deserve to have two grown ups in their lives....not one... and you deserve to have a bit of long term stability. It must be very, very hard for you living like this...

What you need to do is simply go out and have your haircut, have a few hours shopping or whatever, and let them all learn together how to be a family. They will be fine.

^^ This.

It does sound as if you have inadvertently had a hand in undermining the relationships between your DH and the DC. Give them some time alone.

My children will, by choice, stay with me whatever I'm doing than stay with their father. We are still together but, rather like yours, he's a bit more of a "spectator" than a hands-on father. And believe me, this is NOT my fault as I have always encouraged him to be more parental and less "teen big brother" towards them.
He did tell me that he would let me be "bad cop" from the outset, and I told him that it shouldn't be like that, and we should both parent equitably and together, but guess what - I'm bad cop. He's Disney Dad. But in being Disney dad, he doesn't meet their basic needs a lot of the time - he would change a nappy for them, but only when told to - he'd never notice it needed doing. He doesn't make lunch for them. He's never bathed them or cleaned their teeth, or brushed their hair or found their clothes for them. He WORKS, you know. So I do it, because otherwise it wouldn't get done.
I have left him to it at times - and he calls his mother in.

As a result of this, I believe they don't feel particularly secure in his parenting :(. He also spends a lot of time on his computer, in his office, and watching tv in the bedroom. We spend time in the living room but he rarely joins us, except for meals. He does cook and wash up (in turn with me) because I've pushed him to show them a good example in those areas. I can't make him "think ahead" or "think about their needs" - it just doesn't happen. He''ll take them both out without hats, drinks, sunscreen (in Australia) rather than stop and think about what they might need. They're 10 and 5. The 10 yo should, by now, be able to remember for himself but he doesn't always - the 5yo is even less likely to remember.

However, they do both love him and they would not refuse for him to come on an outing (although DS2 did used to complain if Daddy wanted to come to one of his morning activities, so there's that).

Your DP needs to go on a parenting course, I think - to learn how to parent his children instead of being so ineffectual with them. They recognise his ineffectualness and will exploit it. As they get older, they will come round more, I think - but at the young ages they are, they probably don't feel completely safe with him, which may lead to anxiety which they will translate as "not liking" him. I doubt they genuinely dislike him - they just don't have a name for how they really feel.

The cafe situation doesn't sound unusual really OP....what was he meant to do?

He picked the 2 year old up...sat her down...then she screamed and tried to get on you

That's normal! For a 2 year old.

It doesn’t sound like you have any respect for him and the children are picking up on that. Although you may not realise you are undermining him, if you talk down to him a lot and act like you don’t like him, your children will copy you. Do you feel any affection for him? What are his good character qualities?

I agree Four it seem OP doesn't like him or work as a team with him or support him.

Have you ever asked the older two why they don't want to be alone with him?
If not you need to. You need to find out if there is a real reason for this or not.

Actually, I thought the cafe situation was a bit revealing...

I refused and said baby needs feeding, you can deal with DD how you see fit. He sat down and kept calling her and she kept not listening. People were glaring and I said that the longer he let's her do it after we've said she must stop immediately, the more confusing it is for her. So he went and picked her up

So you told him to deal with it his way, he tried to do that, but you didn’t like his way and so then told him what to do, which he did, then you’re surprised because your kids see you as the boss?

I doubt the OP is undermining him, from what she has written, it's clear he hasn't bothered with the children before now, and was completely happy to let the OP do everything. If he wanted a relationship with his kids, why hasn't he booked a parenting course? Or insisted on alone time with him?

My children won’t have DH lift them in or out the bath, they scream and cry if he does it. Often I do it simply to avoid the drama. Sometimes he’ll do it anyway if we’re short on time and we have to put up with the screaming. They do this sort of thing in other contexts too. Today it HAD, on pain of death, to be me to carry both scooters.

But both of us know it’s nothing to do with ‘not liking’ him, it’s just 3 year olds trying to control things and to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I feel a bit sorry for your DH, therapy sounds like the only thing that can save your marriage but it doesn’t sound like you want that.

OP you're undermining him without realising it. I did this with our first child. I used to feel that if I didn't tell DH what to do, he would mess up/not do it/not know what to do etc. In my case, my grandmother back then had a chat with me and told me in no uncertain terms that I was undermining DH and his relationship with our DC. That chat opened my eyes. Since then (we have four children now), things have been very different - and easier for me too!
You have to give them some time together and not just once. You can't let your DC think that they get to choose whether their father goes out with you all or not. Their father is part of the unit, it's not up to them, or up to you, he is their dad. If you're almost constantly telling him what to do (like I used to) he might not even feel confident enough about himself - he needs to discover himself as a father too, without your tutelage. It's all very hard to hear, but you have a part to play in this,
Assuming of course, that there is no hidden reason that justifies how your DC feel around their father.

inconspicuousrhino I agree, the cafe was revealing, not because of what the OP did though, but because the father didn't immediately jump up and grab their child, like any other parent would have done when there are hot liquids around.

tillytown I agree, I found that odd too. Some of us have have highly developed (paranoid) sense of danger. I think I would find it hard to sit still and just call from the sidelines.

Children should ALWAYS be put first, full stop.

Well, tilly I agree in part, but I suspect that’s because he’s not had enough practise at parenting. So it’s a vicious cycle.

The op’s description about saying he should do it his way, then not letting him, is still significant.

“Children should ALWAYS be put first, full stop.”

Children’s needs should be, yes. But not their wants.

If they are just being naughty or defiant for no real reason then why should the op kick her husband out? The kids need to build a better relationship with their father by the sounds of it and op needs to support him and back him up. If he has been absent due to work for much of their lives then it needs time spending on it to rebuild as a family.

I agree I was ready to say 'kids first' but actually I think he's just got no confidence and you've undermined him. It's really bizarre that they'd refuse to spend one on one time with him. Even more bizarre that you'd even vaguely entertain this beyond 'You're going out with Daddy for a while and that's that' unless you actually think he's abusing them, do you?

Family life is always a complex one. But if you stick around for a little longer, whatever be the problems it will get resolved.

Are your kids competitive with each other?

My dd used to be like this with her dad. Never let him pick her up and was always about her mummy. It was really hard for him as things which would take 2 minutes for me would be a massive battle for him.

She would be crying on the floor and totally inconsolable bit as soon as i touched her everything was fine. DH had been very hands on with DS but our work/kids dynamic was different for DD so she spent the bulk of her time with me. He felt unable to take her anywhere without me in case she had a meltdown and it is really in the last 6 months or so that He has started taking her out alone.

Our older ds picked up on it and became much more clingy to me because of the element of competitiveness with his sister. We persevered and age 4 she is now much better but I have to remind her that she has 2 parents as she will come to me when I am in the loo or in the bath to ask for help when her father is right next to her.

I wonder how much this is actually about ambivalence towards your DH and how much is your kids competing amongst themselves for your attention? With 4 young kids who clearly all want to spend time with you, it would be easy for them to see daddy as the less attractive alternative and if kicking up a fuss results in them staying with you, they would be motivated to do it.

One thing we did was when DH was doing a task he would do it for both so instead of each doing 1 bedtime story Which would result in tears and misery from the child getting daddy, we would take it in turns to do both. Once they realised that they were both getting the same the issues massively reduced.

May not be the case for you but possibly worth a try?

Coyoacan - that's not true. If I'd been able to get up I would have retrieved her immediately and she wouldn't have cried because I would have done what she expected

Well lucky you that have the magic touch! The rest of us mere mortals are exposed to tantrums from two-year-olds that don't get their way.

Sounds like you have your hands full. 7 years is a blooming long time, please have a break soon before you burn out. Do you think there is a chance that they can sense your irritation with his lack of co-operation and as a prove their love and loyalty to you are turning against him?

My dd massively favoured being with me, not dh. It sounds as if your dh is rather lazy and as a result of not having the interaction with the children, has lost confidence in himself because there’s no way he can ever match up to you. Your mistake as a couple was never to make alone time with daddy a priority.

I understand it must be terribly difficult to find perspective in this having a baby and a toddler as well as two older children. I agree with others, you need to talk to the older children individually and find out what the issue may be.

He needs to do some really fun and playful things with them. Perhaps with the older two at first so he can get more confident. Start off with a trip to the park. Next time perhaps a trip to soft play. Better to make it a smaller place so he can more easily keep an eye on them. The two year old will probably soon want to join in. Once that happens, they will be on side. Talk to him about how to handle injuries, going to the loo, feeding, nappy changes etc.

If he goes out in the car, he can easily come home if he gets into difficulty. And definitely get on a parenting course. Together if possible. Both his and your behaviour has produced this situation.

I find it incredible that you had four children with your DH who is now, in your opinion a useless father who is disliked by his children.
Many fathers work away from home, those in the military for example, so while DH was working away it was up to you in DHs absence to instill love and affection for him. You have allowed your children to manipulate the situation and alienate their father who you obviously see as a useless parent.
You dont say if you love your husband because it sounds as if you have no respect for him and have always put your children first to the point of pushing him out. At no time in your postndo you mention DH feelings in this.
Parenting classes would be a place to start if you want to save your relationship and have a better family life with your children.

*Greenshoots1

is he their father? then yes, YABU, it isn't a choice between your relationship and your child, is it. It is about your childen having a relationship with their father. It sounds like he has no confidence at all with them, they are manipulating him, and you have allowed this situation to develop rather than supporting him. They should be building relationships with him.*

I’m sorry but I agree with this. I’m sure you don’t mean to but you’re colliding with your kids in their rejection of daddy and sadly he’s lost or never had and confidence or skills with them.
The four and six year old are definitely old enough to understand otheir behaviour is ridiculous and you need to support him and Team to do things together without you and enable him to parent them and the youngest kids will follow suit.
Get help, get him on parenting courses, use a Health visitor or your local family centre.
Whether or not you stay with him is a different matter but let him parent his own bloody children.
Don’t give him or them a choice, they’re being deprived of a dad when he’s right next to them and he’s being deprived of his kids.
I’ve seen this happen 100s of times where one parent is never good enough and the other parent becomes the all giving all doing martyr. It’s a form of control whether consciously or not. Change it for all your sakes.