Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Only 41% want to brexit now, time to vote again asap

611 replies

Idreamofalandrover · 16/12/2017 22:25

www.google.co.uk/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1EA0Q6

Biggest swing towards remain now people are smelling the coffee

OP posts:
VladmirsPoutine · 17/12/2017 16:25

Free movement has certainly created lots of disparate cultures with not much glue to bind them to the host nations people and culture.

To be fair this didn't start with the EU.

makeourfuture · 17/12/2017 16:28

Because why? Migration.

When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

LoveInTokyo · 17/12/2017 16:28

EltonJohn

^"But I have also seen many many many example of people in their 60s and 70s telling younger people that (a) they know best because they remember what it was like before 1973, as if that is in any way relevant to life in 2017, (b) that younger people should respect them purely because they are older and "wiser", and *(c) that "we didn't fight the war to be ruled by Germany".

Jog on, mates. Unless you are over 90 years old you didn't do jack shit in the war."*^

I'm sorry if this wasn't clear enough for you, but obviously it is your reading comprehension that is the problem, not my maths. I suggest you stop before you embarrass yourself further.

makeourfuture · 17/12/2017 16:29

What is this British culture we are talking about?

LoveInTokyo · 17/12/2017 16:30

It is whatever the Beleavers say it is, and if you don't agree you're a traitor. Obviously.

Iprefercoffeetotea · 17/12/2017 16:45

One of the main reasons I voted to remain (I had no idea how complex the process of leaving the EU would be, but I had a couple of issues I felt very strongly about) was maintaining employment legislation. I had a nasty feeling that one of the reasons quite a few Tory MPs were so keen on leaving was because they hate the plebs having any employment protection.

More or less the very first thing the Coalition government did in 2010 was to change the period before you can claim for unfair dismissal from 1 year to 2 years.

David Davis said that employment legislation would not be touched as those who voted to leave the EU were, on the whole, the less well paid, and he didn't want to punish them for their decision.

Yet I now hear that Michael Gove and others are agitating to get rid of the Working Time Directive. Exactly what I thought would happen - thin end of the wedge.

I am not keen on the idea of another referendum (unless only the under 40s get to vote as it's their future, I am well over 40 by the way) but I very much hope that any trade deal has a clause that UK employment law has to remain harmonised with EU employment law to prevent the UK becoming a US-style hellhole where you have no employment rights and only 2 weeks holiday a year.

By the way why do we need more population growth or a euthanasia programme? Surely we only need enough people to maintain the population - we don't need extra people.

LoveInTokyo · 17/12/2017 16:53

We do if the population is ageing... all those old people in hospitals and care homes living until they're 100+ need an army of working age doctors and nurses and carers and taxpayers in general to keep them alive.

phoenix1973 · 17/12/2017 16:56

No way. Democracy states the vote should be processed. The majority voted out. So stop trying to meddle until you get a result that is more to your liking. Ive lost count of the times where my vote wasnt the majority and guess what i did? Pulled up my big girl pants and got on with it.

LoveInTokyo · 17/12/2017 17:02

The difference of course is that those votes weren't permanently binding on future generations and could be reversed in five years if it was a total cock up.

VladmirsPoutine · 17/12/2017 17:05

By the way why do we need more population growth or a euthanasia programme? Surely we only need enough people to maintain the population - we don't need extra people.

The euthanasia bit was obviously tongue-in-cheek. Essentially the UK, and you could argue Western Europe at large has an ageing population (problem). They can't work and therefore can't contribute to the economy. They'll require healthcare, housing and all associated costs that ageing brings with it. This leaves us with 2 options; either we increase immigration - a transient workforce, if you like, that can cover the chasm. Or we boost our own birth rate; except we can't readily do that because not many people can afford their own costs of living let alone the cost of bringing up a child.

But yes I wholly agree with your point r.e. Working Time Directive. There's a certain type of brexiter that's just itching to burn that directive (and indeed other worker's rights legislation) in the bonfire. As it stands people can already opt-out c.f domiciliary care workers ironically.

Julie8008 · 17/12/2017 17:07

A second referendum would be a disaster for this country, Pandoras box is open.

So to avoid repeating previous complaints we would have to negotiate the details of the deal first, right? Otherwise we would be just be voting on the unknown.

So given the details probably wont be finalised until 2021 and then time to have a national debate, another 1-2 years. We are talking after the next general election.

So the EU has to negotiate a deal, when they wont know who will be in government to implement it and wont know if the UK will vote for it. So logically they will give us a crap deal to encourage the UK to reject it. But given it likely has to be after the next election a new government could say hang on we dont like the deal the other government agreed we want to renegotiate. Confused
So when if ever a deal was on the table, who would decide what the impacts of it will be on the UK, economists, forecasters, or politicians? And they are going to be so accurate. Meaning we would have to vote on a deal without knowing what its impact would be, which sounds just like the first referendum.

Assuming the UK rejects the deal 52-48, what then, do we stay in the EU and under what terms or do we leave anyway. We would need a third referendum to decide that. Or we could have a referendum with 4 options, accept deal leave, accept deal stay, reject deal leave, reject deal stay. That's not open to a disaster is it?

So while all this is going on what will happen to our country? A decade worth of uncertainty for everyone. Then maybe stay wins on the third vote but the conservatives decide to put leaving the EU or another referendum in their manifesto for the next election. And so business has no way of knowing if the UK will be in or out of the EU for the next 15 years or so.

Fecking hell, who suggested a second referendum?

So can anyone explain how it could practically work without plunging our country into purgatory for 15 years and beyond?

VladmirsPoutine · 17/12/2017 17:10

@phoenix1973 Grin at last someone brings humour to this thread! I have this image you of you losing a vote at brownies or whatever but still just getting on with life. Going home at the end of camp and enjoying a glass of milk whilst plotting world domination for next Summer's camp. Grin

LoveInTokyo · 17/12/2017 17:12

We're going to be in purgatory anyway tbh. I blame Cameron, the stupid twat.

Bolshybookworm · 17/12/2017 17:13

I also don't want a second referendum, look where the first one got us! We don't have enough constraints on the press either, a second referendum would be as full of lies as the first.

What I want is for the government to start acting like grown ups, tell the Brexit nutjobs to stfu and either negotiate a sensible deal that preserves jobs and the economy or call the whole thing off.

JacquesHammer · 17/12/2017 17:38

Democracy states the vote should be processed

Can MNHQ please create a "that's not how democracy works" emoticon please?

makeourfuture · 17/12/2017 17:45

A second referendum would be a disaster for this country, Pandoras box is open.

The sunk cost fallacy.

Moussemoose · 17/12/2017 17:51

phoenix1973

Democracy states the vote should be processed

I don't even know what that means. Processed? Democracy states?

Where does 'democracy' state the need for 'processing'.

I didn't think it could get worse but it does.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 17/12/2017 18:04

I'm sorry if this wasn't clear enough for you, but obviously it is your reading comprehension that is the problem, not my maths

Yep i agree with love

Lime19 · 17/12/2017 18:22

Someone tell me why brexit will be such a disaster? In simple terms. It seems it's remain is the "cool" thing to vote for in my generation but actually I'm not sure that people who voted remain know why they did so (other than fitting in with their mates and avoiding the "shame" of voting leave). Sure, there are phrases thrown around "it's a disaster", "it's ruined life for generations to come" etc but what does that ACTUALLY mean?!

Julie8008 · 17/12/2017 18:27

tell me why brexit will be such a disaster?
Put simply it will be a disaster because a minority of voters didn't get their way and they want to label it a 'disaster', as it helps their effort to subvert democracy.

And if they can't get their own way at least they can create a self fulfilling prophecy that enable them to say 'I told you so', after the event.

Lime19 · 17/12/2017 18:29

I think a lot of good news about brexit is not being reported as widely. That won't help and just fuels these people that want to vote again. Totally crazy!

It's always a certain type of person too. If we voted to stay, you wouldn't catch me writing a thread months later on mumsnet or starting a petition.

Lime19 · 17/12/2017 18:32

The remainers behaviour throughout this whole thing has been shameful too. This just being an example.

My social media was full of it. Vile insults if you dared to disagree with them. Pleading posts to "do the right thing". It puts me off completely.

I'd be prepared to listen if they were not so aggressive in their approach. And if one of them could offer an argument as to why their way is best.

DontLookBackIntoTheSun · 17/12/2017 18:37

There is no good news about Brexit to report. It will be a disaster because we will all be poorer, both financially and culturally.

Lime19 · 17/12/2017 18:39

Why can't we look after ourselves financially? How do you mean poorer? And why?

And culture? I don't get that either? You need to explain further.

Julie8008 · 17/12/2017 18:40

It will be a disaster because we will all be poorer, both financially and culturally

Definitely, when we leave the EU we wont be allowed to work, french films will be banned and our cars wont start in the morning.