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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu for calling her a racist?

131 replies

spiritofadventure · 14/12/2017 09:22

Went out for a few pre christmas drinks with a group of close friends on Saturday night. Nobody was drunk and we had been out for maybe 1 hour when somehow, the conversation turned into a discussion about Trump.

One of my friends came out with 'Trump is going to change the world for the better' and then proceeded to have a good old rant about how 'blacks and mexicans' are responsible for 'all' the crime in America. I asked her what she was basing this on , to which she replied 'people should just stick to their own people and stay in their own countries'.

This comment left me open mouthed and furious! I am mixed race and 2 other friends in the group are from another European country.

I told her that I had no idea she had such controversial opinions and that i didn't want to carry on a conversation with a racist. And then I left.

We haven't spoken since, but I have spoken to other members of the group and have been told that she is 'deeply hurt' that I called her a racist and she wants an apology.

I stand by what I said and i don't want to apologise.

Aibu??

OP posts:
RebeccaBunch · 14/12/2017 11:28

I told her that I had no idea she had such controversial opinions and that i didn't want to carry on a conversation with a racist. And then I left.

I'm white and I would also have done exactly what you did. She was extremely offensive, very ignorant and I wouldn't provide this idiocy with any kind of audience.

Well done OP & of course you weren't U.

Apology my arse!!! She should be apologising to you.

My 18 yo white niece recently declared very proudly at a family gathering "I don't believe white privilege exists" and I replied "If you don't think white privilege exists you really need to go and educate yourself a bit more as to what white privilege actually is because i can assure you privilege of all kinds exists!"

Some stuff just needs to be said.

hjgguygi8y86 · 14/12/2017 11:29

IvorBiggun
Love the namechanging to post with great ignorance grin If you didn’t think your views were socially unacceptable you would post in your own name.

I know my views are different to many others on this thread, so they'll be contrary to this thread. I have said why I NC. My views are not socially unacceptable since this thread is not society.

Now, you have said my post is ignorant? OK, what have I written that is incorrect?

Gilead · 14/12/2017 11:29

hjgguy
You have marginalised, spouted nonsense, and defended the indefensible. It is an opinion piece. You have not backed up a single statement with empirical evidence.

RebeccaBunch · 14/12/2017 11:33

hjgguygi8y86 for a start, and to address some of the utter shite you are spouting, you need to watch the Oscar winning film "13th". It is available on Netflix.

hjgguygi8y86 · 14/12/2017 11:34

Gilead Be specific. What do you disagree with? You're right, I have not posted empirical evidence (I assume you mean on the crime statistics point only) as I am stating widely accepted views of the data. They're all over the internet and in research journals and used by all political slants. Are you saying you disagree with the generally held view of research and statistics? That's ok of course to disagree, but can you provide evidence to the contrary then?

It is an opinion piece.
Grin Yes, it's an opinion piece. As is every post on Mumsnet on every thread. This is AIBU. We are asked for our opinion if the OP is BU. Of course it's an opinion piece! Hmm

hjgguygi8y86 · 14/12/2017 11:35

RebeccaBunch hjgguygi8y86 for a start, and to address some of the utter shite you are spouting, you need to watch the Oscar winning film "13th"

So the quality of your debate is "you're talking shite, go and watch a film". Right... Hmm

IrisAtwood · 14/12/2017 11:37

Am rather sick of this only one view is allowed society.

Is that the view that racism is unacceptable? Hmm

Parsleyisntfood · 14/12/2017 11:37

hjgguygi8y86 I explained why I thought what you said was racist. But further the old chestnut of black women not liking white women marryong “their” men is a good one too. None of us have said that ok btw.
There’s a lot of social reasons why this situation persists, can you hazard a guess what it is? Or are you happy to keep your “own kind”

RebeccaBunch · 14/12/2017 11:38

no the "quality of my debate" is you aren't here for debate and I have no interest in providing you with fuel.

But I've given you one way that you can start to find out why what you are saying is total rubbish. But is your mind is too closed (and I suspect it is), so be it.

ZoeWashburne · 14/12/2017 11:38

That was textbook racism. Correlation=/= causation. Overwhelmingly, minorities are jailed for crimes due to inherent racism in the justice system (for example, white suburban kids often get slaps on the wrist for serious drugs, whilst minority, poor children will be jailed for marijuana). In fact, poverty and the ability to hire a decent lawyer rather than being reliant on legal aid is one of the biggest factors.

I would just reply to your friend who texted you "I am hurt and livid that you would be friends with a bigot. Believing that races shouldn't mix, or that being black or latino makes you more likely to commit a crime is the definition of racist. I am not friends with racists, and I am not friends with Jane."

I feel like it is always privilleged white people who always come to the defence of people like this and say "thats not what she meant!" or "she's a nice person" or "respect other's opinions".

Not all opinions are created equal, and just because someone sincerely believes it doesn't protect them from being called out.

An agree to disagree opinion is something like "I believe that we need a better system of estate tax for social mobility".

This woman is a racist. We need to be better at calling that out.

hjgguygi8y86 · 14/12/2017 11:40

Parsleyisntfood hjgguygi8y86 I explained why I thought what you said was racist.
No you didn't actually. Could you re-post it or re-write it, I have not seen the explanation of your accusation.

Gilead · 14/12/2017 11:40

hjgguy
Nah, can't be bothered to argue with racist nonsense that then asks me to justify my position. I'm not racist, nothing to justify. You will say you're not racist but continue to marginalise and post racist rhetoric dressed up as statistics with which you will provide nothing more than it's all over the internet. Not playing with your logical fallacies.

RebeccaBunch · 14/12/2017 11:40

You don't really believe that statistics can explain and justify systemic racism do you?

Parsleyisntfood · 14/12/2017 11:42

I think hjgguygi8y86 that the statistics you mention actually say you are more likely to be CONVICTED of a crime if you are black. Rather than commit a crime. And Mexicans have more criminality because in a lot of case they are illegal immegrants and everything they do becomes illegal (even legal things like working, accessing healthcare).
I don’t think your point is very much the nice face of racism and I haven’t name changed to say that.

That’s what I posted.

Parsleyisntfood · 14/12/2017 11:44

Convictions for crimes and committing crimes are 2 different beasts. Let’s remember President Trump has outstanding charges.
I can’t imagine explaining poverty and privilege to an adult. If you’ve not got some inkling by now I wouldn’t know where to start.

hjgguygi8y86 · 14/12/2017 11:44

RebeccaBunch no the "quality of my debate" is you aren't here for debate and I have no interest in providing you with fuel.

I see. Hmm You have no answer, you have no arguments, you are unable to debate. Just like the example you gave when your niece expressed an opinion, you didn't respond with anything meaningful or informative, you didn't even respond with a proper challenge or a correction. You just responded telling her she needs to educate herself because you don't agree.

There's a common thread here isn't there with you RebeccaBunch?

Anyone: I believe A.
RebeccaBunch: If you believe A you need to stop believing A. That's all. I don't want to debate, I have nothing more to say, I just don't like you believing A so go away and do whatever I say until you come back and agree with me.

Hmm
OhChill · 14/12/2017 11:45

Well said gilead. It’s Goady Feckery of the highest order to NC, post a comment in support of some seriously questionable racist rhetoric and then jump up and down demanding to know exactly why everyone thinks their post stinks. So, I won’t be engaging with you hjg, ta.

sinceyouask · 14/12/2017 11:46

hjgguygi8y86, you are racist, and a coward.

hjgguygi8y86 · 14/12/2017 11:46

Gilead hjgguy Nah, can't be bothered to argue with racist nonsense that then asks me to justify my position.

As I thought. Not one jot of reasoned argument to back up anything you say. Not one drop of ability to quote anything I said that you can actually disagree with and challenge.

Just automatic outrage and nasty accusations. So predictable and such a very, very poor, distasteful position.

IrisAtwood · 14/12/2017 11:47

To be a racist means the person believes one race is superior to another.

Wrong.

Racism is far more nuanced than that. Although based on the idea that one or more races is superior to any other, the belief that particular racial groups are more criminal than other groups is racist.
This is discussed on the following paper: Sociology of Racism published by Harvard University Press.

scholar.harvard.edu/files/matthewclair/files/clair_denis_2015.pdf

hjgguygi8y86 · 14/12/2017 11:48

sinceyouask hjgguygi8y86, you are racist, and a coward.

Are you actually able to state why? Or can you not help yourself spouting such hateful nonsense?

Clandestino · 14/12/2017 11:48

hjgguygi8y86

wow. Just that. Wow.

IvorBiggun · 14/12/2017 11:48

Yup, what they said ^^

hjggy you made several sweeping statements including the assertion that “Blacks are more likely to commit violent crime in the US” without giving any thought to the context or even understanding what that means. Are they more likely to commit violent crime or are they more likely to be convicted because of racism? If that statement is true, why has a situation occurred where a whole group of people are more likely to commit violent crime? Because they have been marinalised, discriminated against, denied opportunities... because of racism.

How can race segregation ever be anything other than racist?

As for “this thread is not society”? That’s just plain stupid. We don’t exist outside of society therefore we are part of it and therefore representative of it. Not that what you said related to my point. My point was whether something is socially acceptable or not. Racism is socially unacceptable - it’s why we have legislation on our statue books to make it criminal and also to protect rights in civil law. Your logic is seriously flawed.

It’s also not escaped my attention that this thread by a mixed race woman who has witnessed racism had been hijacked by hjgguygi8y86 to tell us she and all those who agree with her are wrong. I’m not interested in continuing to give her a platform and the attention craved so I’m done.

May50 · 14/12/2017 11:50

OP - YANBU - she was racist. And saying you should stick to your own kind/country. You’re mixed race, so what is ‘your’ country? Are you only allowed to be friends with other mixed race people. Just bizarre. You were justified in walking out and standing up to her comments. She’s the one who owes you an apology. But then you still wouldn’t want to be friends with her I’m sure, you now know what her thoughts are.

hjgguygi8y86 · 14/12/2017 11:50

OhChill So, I won’t be engaging with you hjg, ta.

Unable to provide any coherent argument but just throw insults too? OK. ta.

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