To be shocked at teacher telling DD to 'hold in' period.

[yaela123]

DD is 15 and her school have a no going to the toilet during lesson time rule, which I completely agree with on the whole as I know how disruptive it can be if people are constantly in and out, and how everyone just uses it as an excuse to bunk off (I am a teacher too - very different environment though)

Only exception is if you have a medical note from a doctor.

Today in one of her lessons DD says she could feel that she really needed to change her pad, she was getting quite worried about it leaking. She eventually asked the (male) teacher if she could go to the loo.

Teacher: No, you know the rules
DD: I really need it.
Teacher: What did I just say?
DD: It's a girl problem...
Teacher: What do you mean?
DD: Umm... I'm on my period
Teacher: Break is only in half an hour, hold it in til then

Obviously those aren't the exact words said but she says it's pretty accurate.
DD is quite shy so did just wait til break (no leakage btw).

She doesn't seem overly bothered but AIBU to be pretty shocked at him telling her to hold it in? Surely even men have some basic idea that it doesn't work like that?

just that children should go to the loo at break

And sometimes it's not possible. And sometimes they might go at break and need the loo again.

if a child forgot to go at break I wouldn't let them go.

This is the kind of attitude from some teachers that I don't understand. It makes me think that some people who are in teaching neither understand or like children or young people.

Of course they try it on, some more than others. But surely the attraction of teaching is to work with young people who sometimes do chaotic things, like forgetting to go to the loo at break because they are busy playing or chatting or worse, perhaps being scared to go to the loo at break because that's where the bullies hang out.

I'm not saying that's why everyone asks to go to the loo during lessons. I'd suspect most of them of wanting to skive, but it would cross my mind and so I wouldn't have an adamantine view on the issue.

I don't think any one is saying the teacher in the OP was correct, just that children should go to the loo at break
This.
I don't think he handled it well.
But I do think students should use break/lunch/lesson changeover if convenient and jot going too far as their first option rather than relying on nipping in and out of lessons as and when.

I'll still let people out during class if they really need it (thankfully at my school staff have discretion) but I am also mindful of work avoiders and time wasters. Common sense and being firm but fair seems to work pretty well.

Maisypops

I agree the teacher handled it badly.

I'm stricter than you and tend not to let them out at all. Children often do need the loo, but because they didn't want to waste their break, however some posters don't seem to be able to grasp that.

The teachers on this thread seem to avoid certain questions. For the umpteenth time: 1)how do you know whether a request is genuine or not? (This goes for boys, girls, periods, diarrhoea, tummyache, everything. How do you know? 2) How do the refused kids feel/react when one or two others aren't refused?

Missm

To a certain extent, you are undoubtedly correct about not wasting time.

However, you’re not grasping basic bodily function.

A child, having eaten lunch, may need a poo 10 mins after class has started. Or be desperate for a wee 30 mins in because they ran round like a loon at break time, been very thirsty and guzzled a lot of water.

Should we limit their food and water intake to mitigate?

Perchi,

If a child is ill you can usually tell, if a girl is on her period and quietly says it is girls problems I let them go. However a child who comes in from break demanding to go to the loo (genuine or not) sorry no, likewise the bolshy girl who refers to her period as on the blob. Teachers get a sixth sense.

Mummyoflittledragon

Regardless of how much a child drank if they go at break and lunch it should reduce the need to leave lesson, and they should be able to hang on if they have already had a wee.

Sometimes I wonder whether people who claim to be teachers actually are. I suspect that is where some of the mistrust creeps in.

Thankyou, MissM, and my 2nd question?

Teachers get a sixth sense

They're not alone

Missm
I see you specifically neglected the poo issue. A healthy adult bladder can only hold 1.5 to 2 cups of urine. It will be a lot less for a young child. So no, they can’t necessarily just hold it all lesson.

I wet myself as a kid in primary school because my teacher was a bitch and I was too afraid to ask to go. It really shouldn’t be like that in 2017.

Perchi

It is irrelevant to me how those refused feel when others allowed as in my case it is so rare that I let a child out.

Mummyoflitedragon

Exactly my point though if they go at break, holding it in lesson won't be a problem.

For the umpteenth time: 1)how do you know whether a request is genuine or not? (This goes for boys, girls, periods, diarrhoea, tummyache, everything. How do you know?)
Best judgement at the time. Whether the child seems like themselves, whether thry are the type who repeatedly come in and instantly want to leave etc.
People in life generally can pick up if someone is being sincere about someyhing, or is lying etc. No different for students.
If i have doubts, i get them to ask again in 5 mins. Those who are genuine quietly adk again and i ley them go. The ones who go 'oh my god-d (with eye roll) but i'm actually going to die!' Tend to last the whole lesson and neck loads to drink etc.
2) How do the refused kids feel/react when one or two others aren't refused?
Boy who cried wolf rule here. Some will do yhr 'oh you are so unfair' but after a couple of weeks at the start of term they get how my classroom works: you are fair and reasonable to me and i am fair and reasonable to you. It's 2 way mutual respect. If you choose to take the piss or not respect others (staff or students) then you lose the benefit of the doubts etc
I'll be honest, I rarely have to refuse (unless say it's 10 mins before changeover and then i'll let them out as we pack away) because students are smart. They know if they cry wolf too much they'll lose the benefit of the doubt.

Students aren't idiots. They know which staff are firm and fair and thry know which staff will let them do whatever, whenever

Regardless of how much a child drank if they go at break and lunch it should reduce the need to leave lesson, and they should be able to hang on if they have already had a wee

You are to be congratulated on having such a superior bladder that it works on a schedule.

On Thursday I had one (non-alcoholic) drink at an event. I popped to the loo before leaving. By the time I got home 35 mins later I desperately needed the loo again.

I'm 37.

If you are adamant that all children's bladders work to your schedule and refuse to let a 10 year old use the loo I can only conclude you're one of those awful teachers - of which fortunately there doesn't seem to be many - who enjoy petty power trips and bullying children.

Ahh, now we're getting to the nitty gritty. A child's feelings are IRRELEVANT to you!!!

God yes you are MissPeters. What do you get out of these threads? Are you really an anti-teacher troll trying to make them look bad? Because you're doing a great job. Do you realise that human bodies, particularly children's, don't always work to a timetable? Do you get some kind of weird kick out of exerting power over children's bladders?

Missm
It takes 30 mins, maybe more to process liquids. If a child drink over a cup of water, which isn’t unreasonable, their bladder will be too small to hold it for 2 hours.

Do you want your kids to learn or are you more interested in proving a point?

I see you ignored the poo issue again.

MaisyPops
To me (and certainly most of my colleagues) 'those parents' are as you describe, just willingly obtuse, pick and choose when rules apply, think their child is a total saint who is so brilliant they would never do anything wrong etc

You have a very binary view of parents and their children. They are good or time wasters, nice and reasonable or 'willingly obtuse'. This binary of yours is the opposite of 'open'.

Lost among these fine distinctions of yours we have bladders and intestines and uteruses, and tampons and pads that may or may not hold out for another half hour. The 'time wasters' are just as likely to experience sanpro failure and the embarrassment associated with that as those who normally keep their noses to the grindstone.

No they aren't. Who says feelings are irrelevant?
You are absolutely determined ti find some sort of 'mean nasty teacher who must be hated' angle. Equally, you act like applying a spot of connon sense is scarring children for life.

I'm firm and fair. I like my students. They like me. I respect them. They respect me. I don't take the piss with them. They don't take the piss with me. If they think I've made the wrong call then they talk to me after class. If i thibk they have made poor choices then i speak yo them after class. They know if they try to take the piss with me it doesn't work. They know if they are polite and reasonable I am more than accomodtaing.
The great thing about this is that it creates a calm, safe learning environment. It also means that if I've seen part of a situation, students will generally be honest and say 'that was me. Timmy had nothing to do with it' because they know i am reasonable.

If you want to continue to desperately cling to 'don't let people out any time means you hate kids and thibk their feelings are insignificant' then great. I hope you feel enlightened on your quest against mean teachers.
I'll focus on the day job where i have great classes, mainly great parents and the positive working relationships that mean this morning I was at a Christmas volunteering event with my students because we obviously totes hate each other and I love destroying their souls

The 'time wasters' are just as likely to experience sanpro failure and the embarrassment associated with that as those who normally keep their noses to the grindstone.
I know. Which is why it is interesting that students who time waste around school don't try work avoidance strategies in my lesson after the first couple of weeks and they realise that if they don't cry wolf, when thry need to go, i let them.

Nice, reasonable parents may have concerns or complaints, but thry raise them in a way that is reasonable. It isn't about being perfect parents or golden children. It's about being reasonable and reasonable people tend yo get the outcome they want, because they are reasonable and don't takr the piss.

MaisyPops, did I read you right that there are children who habitually get to class and then immediately want to go to the loo? i.e. serial class dodgers?

What is done to address issues these children may have apart from refusing students as a whole permission to use the loo or leaving it up to the teacher's impeccable judgement? Does anyone try to get to the root of the disengagement or the anxiety or whatever else a student may be experiencing? Or is it considered sufficient that the students are corralled in classrooms for set periods of time?

It strikes me it is really easy to apply a one size fits all plaster that addresses only the symptoms of a problem (i.e. a no loo break during class rule), and really lazy school policy to boot, while the real issue goes ignored.

In all my years of teaching -17- I have never known a girl leak through sanitary protection and have an embarrassing accident. We taught 2x2hr lessons between every break. Girls ask all the time to go to th3 toilet for ‘a girl thing’ and are often ‘desperate’. They also ask young male teachers more than any other teachers.

Female teachers deal with it better. I always talk to the classes when they are new about toilet visits, boys and girls, and the rules. It includes managing their bodies and periods - without going into detail. Hardly anyone ever asks after that. If they do I remind them of the rule and ask if they must go. If they say yes I allow it and say ‘But please don’t ask again’. Not a problem.

Young staff, particularly male are often targetted to embarrass them. Not saying that is what your daughter did but that may be his experience. I have seen girls push the conversation about it being ‘a girl’s thing’ beyond acceptable boundaries to the point where as a Head of Year I rang a mum about her 13 year old daughter having had a period for 8 weeks that had disrupted her new History teacher’s class 3 times every week. Her mum said she had not started her periods at all.

Teenagers can manage. They don’t see teachers running out of classrooms because they must go to the loo or female teachers running out to change sanitary protection mid-lesson. It is part of growing up, learning to manage. Medical problems are different.

And how do you know they are crying wolf when they first arrive in your class?
Because I want your x-ray vision.

Wrt the OP's daughter - how do you "know" that a girl isn't worried about flooding?
How does a girl whose periods can include flooding work an avoidance strategy into her daily schedule?

You will make a fortune if you can answer this, btw.