To not want DH to shoot birds in Yorkshire?

[g1itterati]

AIBU or a bit "precious" please? I'm quite wound up about this since Saturday.

I'm a rep at The DC's school with 2 other mums. One of them is quite a "character" - e.g. she turns up to school runs in green wellies, tweeds and a Barbour jacket as if she's on a farm in god knows where, when in actual fact we're in Central London. She talks loudly that she has to dash as she's late for "the shoot" - though I never quite brought myself to enquire where and what she will be shooting.

When we held a coffee morning at her house, she was about to get her "guns" out (yes, actual guns from a gun cupboard) but fortunately most people had to make a quick exit because of the parking metres. She is from Yorkshire and makes no bones about the fact that she wants to move back up there asap, leave her DH working in London for a few more years and put the DC in a boarding prep. Anyway, each to their own. She is very friendly and actually quite funny.

They asked DH and I over for lunch this weekend. I had told her I was vegetarian to which she said, "Why?" I said I was fine to just have veg and sides, so that was that. Anyway, when we got there, she was making a big thing about how she orders whole dead pheasants from Yorkshire and plucks them herself! Apparently she has then hanging in the "pantry!" Then, after lunch, talk turned to shooting and they proceeded to get out what can only be described as a whole arsenal of guns and then talked us through what they have shot with them!

My AIBU is - her DH has now asked my DH to invest in something or other and he has invited him on a two-day shoot of birds in Yorkshire in Jan! DH has accepted this.

This morning I thanked her when I saw her briefly and she said (laughing) "Your DH is a dark horse, how did you two get together?!" Basically, she is alluding to the fact he was once trained and has used guns professionally and I'm anti- the whole thing.

AIBU to ask DH not to go because I am totally anti- fox-hunting and what is the point of shooting birds for no reason as a sport? Personally, I think it should be made illegal. Or should I just accept that some people are different to me and let it go?

If he's never shot a gun before then the chances are he's quite unlikely to bag any pheasants in any case.

You sound awful op.

I can never understand why people get their knickers in a twist over shooting (or hunting) when they happily eat intensively reared pork, beef, chicken and turkeys.

At least a pheasant has had a happy life, running around outside.

And people who are anti fox hunting have never seen the damage done to hens by foxes.

When we held a coffee morning at her house, she was about to get her "guns" out (yes, actual guns from a gun cupboard)

I don't believe this. Guns are kept locked away- you don't show them off to visitors. If she did, she's a bit bonkers.

You should allow your DH to do what he wants to. You are a vegetarian; assume you don't own anything leather either?

Of course I get the point about abbatiors and pre-packaged meat - this is the main reason I've been vegetarian since the age of 12!

But sheep and cows would not exist in the numbers we have, if they had not been bred for eating. They are domesticated animals. Humans are omnivores. Would you feel the same about eating free range or organic meat? or wild meat like birds and rabbits which are going to die anyway?

You keep saying vegetarian rather than vegan, OP, which rather suggests to me that you don't abjure dairy. You do know how people get dairy, don't you?

Well aside from the shooting thing (which despite being from Yorkshire I hate and by the way Yorkshire is a big place and not all countryside) I wouid be more concerned about your DH being asked to “invest in something”
That could get messy

If my husband even considered going shooting for 'fun' or any other bloodsport, I'd aim his gun at him until he packed his stuff and left. See how much enjoyment he got out of being the hunted.

I would hope you're both vegetarians, then. Or are you okay with eating meat so long as other people are doing the killing?

Nobody wears wellies in London

You sure about that?!

I've seen people in London wearing wellies. I've wore wellies in London. I wasn't the only one person in Hyde Park with them on either.

Apart from the shooting bit which I'm not that keen on personally, this woman sounds quite quite marvellous. Excellent value in fact. Stick with her for the lols.

In all seriousness though, she's hot different values to you on one issue. If you can look past that to see that's she's a decent human being I think you should just suck it up. You dang tell your dh what to do after all.

Pheasant shoots are infinitely preferable to the intensively farmed crap most of you are eating daily.

I don't understand the point about "wild meat...that's going to die anyway".
Obviously, some ways of killing animals are more humane than others but, as I said, I want nothing to do with any of it.

I admit there are probably issues around "land management" that I don't understand. I get upset when I drive through Richmond Park, for instance, if there is a sign up announcing they will be doing a deer cull.

If you are not an actual farmer, I don't know why anyone would make an activity out of killing animals or shooting game. There is so much wasted meat anyway.

I probably won't stop DH going on this one occasion, but I don't want it becoming in any way regular. This is not my scene at all

That's very noble of you to not stop him.

What if he enjoys it and wants to do it again?

I respect you are vegetarian and that your lifestyle reflects this (clothing etc) but it seems like your Husband can't participate in shooting because it interferes with your beliefs, regardless of how he feels? He eats meat so obviously doesn't have issues with animals being killed for food.

About the wellies and mud thing, whilst DH and I are both from rural backgrounds we live in a semi on the edge of a town because this is our first house and we couldn't afford what we wanted in the countryside when we were first time buyers. My car is parked on the drive covered in mud and my porch is full of muddy wellies and tatty wax jackets because we are out in the country all the time, we just don't happen to live there at the moment.

I think it's nothing to do with you whatsoever.

It's your DH who has been invited and it's up to him, as his own, independent, self-thinking adult, to decide if he wants to do it.

Personally I don't have an issue with killing the animals you eat yourself, a pheasant has a much nicer life than any kind of farmed chicken, and providing someone who is a good shot kills it, it's a pretty instantaneous death.

I agree with this, but, a lot of these sporting shoots kill far more than they can ever sell or eat. There's a lot of shooting (almost entirely pheasant and partridge, but some wildfowling too) round my way.

Some years ago, I went beating for a day on a fairly posh shoot. They bagged over 100 brace that day, and most of them ended up buried in a pit. The rearing of birds is done on an almost industrial scale. Come October, some of the rural lanes turn into roadkill alley, as all the birds are let free from the pens for the first time and get mown down by cars.

Here in the south, the conservation argument has some merit. There's no doubt that a lot of hedgerows and small copses are only there to provide cover for the birds. But grouse moors are a different matter, and the illegal shooting or poisoning of raptors is big problem for anyone who cares about biodiversity.

I'd be very unhappy if DP bogged off to kill birds for fun with a load of hoorays, but I wouldn't mind at all if he went out for the day with our friends who shoot and brought back a brace of pheasant or a nice duck.

He'd have to pluck and dress them himself mind, I wouldn't be doing it!

I probably won't stop DH going on this one occasion, but I don't want it becoming in any way regular. This is not my scene at all.

It's not upto you to control what he does in his free time. He's a grown adult. If he wants to spend a day shooting with friends, who are you to stop him?

I understand you're vegetarian and don't like the idea of eating meat, but your DH does eat meat so his likes are going to be different. I wouldn't be very impressed if my partner decided I wasn't "allowed" to do my hobbies, or try out something new.

I would hope you're both vegetarians, then. Or are you okay with eating meat so long as other people are doing the killing?

Good job we are then. We don't wear fur or leather shoes either.

My only contradiction to that is our dog however who does eat meat, would love for there to be an alternative to that but unfortunately, at this moment, for him there isn't and so his meat comes from the butchers.

Incidentally, I did put in my post shooting for 'fun'. There is a huge difference between killing something to eat and shooting it because you think you're entitled to.

If you are not an actual farmer, I don't know why anyone would make an activity out of killing animals or shooting game. There is so much wasted meat anyway.

what do you mean by 'wasted meat'? All the birds off a shoot are eaten by the people taking part or sent to supermarkets. Someone in my family shoots and I am delighted to be offered a pheasant- cheaper than buying it at Waitrose.

I don't understand this sentimental attitude to animals (as food) by vegetarians. (And I used to be one in my teens.) The animals you see in fields or pens would not exist were it not for being farmed as food.
And if you don't eat meat, presumably you don't eat dairy or wear leather? Nothing worse than a vegetarian who's a bit choosy where they draw the line.

"I admit there are probably issues around "land management" that I don't understand. I get upset when I drive through Richmond Park, for instance, if there is a sign up announcing they will be doing a deer cull."

Let me explain this to you. There are no longer any other natural predators around that will take down the deer in Richmond Park. If they are allowed to spread unhindered, they will consume all their food and the unnatural concentration of deer will lead to diseases which may well wipe them all out, as well as causing a lot of suffering. It would also take out the vegetation, which would threaten other organisms in the Park.

The alternative would be to introduce wolves and bears- and there simply isn't the room to give them a decent quality of life while keeping humans safe.

Also, for many millennia, man has been one of the natural predators. If we take this out of the equation, having already taken the other large predators out, there is nothing to keep populations in check.

I come from Sweden, where wolves and bears are making a recovery, but even so there are not enough to keep the local elk and deer population to sustainable levels without some shooting. Dying from starvation would not be a better death than dying from a bullet.

Pheasants are different, as they are non-native and reared for eating. But they are reared under far more humane conditions than the chicken your husband might get from the supermarket or the calf who provided the milk for your tea.

My DH has guns and quietly goes off with his friends to shoot clays. He knows my opinion on game shooting and also thinks it's a bit odd to go killing things for fun.... which is the reason why people get togged up and pay a lot of money to ensure that they get a good day's 'sport'. They have to employ 'beaters' to go round making sure the pheasants become airborne- they tend to prefer meandering around on country lanes otherwise. The whole industry is utterly vile. SIL had some friends round one day, who kept banging on about their bloody gundogs. MIL mentioned that she felt sorry for the couple as they were unable to conceive - I said that it was probably for the best that this pair of bloodlusting sadists weren't bringing children into the world.
Utter bollocks that people shoot pheasants for food. Yes, a few of them might make it into the pot, but the main reason they do it is because they get a kick out of blasting a living creature out of the sky. How fucking sick is that?!

Surely they're to eat? In which case I have no problem with it, and they lead a much better life than most farm animals.

Do however think he should look into the ethics of this particular estate first.

Actually, no he shouldn't.

Because the main point was mentioned by a previous poster: this lady is trying to get him to invest in something. Sounds as dodgy as hell. He shouldn't touch it.

Apologies, just seen it was HoppingGreen.

I live in London. There's a man round the corner from us who takes his dog to the park in wellies when it's muddy. Why would he make his shoes all manky?

Good job we are then. We don't wear fur or leather shoes either.

That's cool. I don't mean that in a sarcastic way either - just lots of people have issue with people shooting meat, but are happy to go out and eat it themselves.