To pull out because of programme at Christmas concert

[Whyamistillawake]

I've been going to a choir since September, most of which has been practising for the Christmas concert this week.

We've just had the final rehearsal in which they've introduced a duet which us two people (not including me) singing 'Baby it's cold outside'.

Am I overreacting to pull out? At the moment I don't see how I can sit there through it.

I love this song.
It's about a couple who aren't married, they don't want to get a bad rep so she goes home as was expected at the time of writing.
You didn't have sex until you were married and she still lived at home.

I think that the honourable thing to do would be to attend the concert, enjoy yourself, try to block out the duet, and then tell the choir master afterwards how uncomfortable you felt and suggest that he considers not including it in future performances.

That way you'll have not let anyone down and will have made your point.

Not turning up would be cowardly and impact the whole choir. Not telling the choir leader your reasons for disliking the song would be a cop out.

If someone says something that you find offensive, but you know they didn't mean it in that context, wouldn't you point out (politely) that you and possibly others interpret their words as being discriminatory? Surely you wouldn't just let them continue repeating their words/opinion and risk hurting or offending other people?

particularly if I can move myself from the front row so I'm less obvious in how I react

Oh pull the other one. If something like this is likely to evoke such a visceral reaction from you then you probably shouldn't ever engage in any sort of activity that might mean you have to leave your house.

particularly if I can move myself from the front row so I'm less obvious in how I react and therefore my total enthusiasm is less relevant. Nobody will be looking at you. They will be looking at the duo who are singing.

That's the thinking I'm starting to come round to @Gazelda. It seems a good compromise. The song is triggering for me but as it won't be coming as a shock I think I can just deal with that.

To be honest I hadn't appreciated how triggering it was until I started this thread so I do think my own personal experience (of having someone pester and pester until I eventually said yes because it was easier than no) is influencing me here. I look back at my younger self and wonder WTF I was doing.

Dexra - hopefully not! I always stare at random whilst I'm watching these things though!

Assigning modern day 'reasons for offence' and relating that to modern day (anti) social behaviour to a song written 63 yrs ago, is taking bat-shit crazy to a whole new level. !

It's comes from a time when no matter how much you fancied each other, staying the night was utterly unacceptable unless completely unavoidable. (A storm/very bad weather being such a reason)

The drink reference is about it possibly being alcohol.
This really is a case of ridiculous hysteria. The term 'rapey' is equally offensive . It makes light of rape - as though something is 'like rape' . Nothing is 'like rape'.

The three date rape drugs, Rohypnol, GBH and Ketamine weren't available when the song came out. And even though Rohypnol had been discovered at the beginning of the decade, the chances of it having gone from discovery to social use, worthy of inclusion in a popular song - where the general population would 'get' the lyric is ridiculous.

The song is about social expectation . Doing what you want and doing what is expected. No more than that.
If you don't want to be in the choir don't be. But this is not a worthy reason .

This song isn't about pestering though. It's about them both toying with each other.

if enough people decided the song was inappropriate and it WAS deleted from Elf, would that be a massive deal?

Of course not. Rewriting the past is the sign of a healthy society. We should also burn books we currently don't agree with and plays by Shakespeare/Marlowe/Balzac etc should be banned for not conforming to modern sensibilities.

That's how you here it. Maybe it's how it was intended. It isn't how I hear it and I can't exactly stop hearing it that way!

Please can someone highlight where I have used 'rapey' or stop accusing me of using the term? The vast majority of usage has been from people defending the song. Not sure if it has ever been used by the (small minority I accept) of people agreeing.

*hear

Basically he is saying 'But it's cold outside' meaning 'Please stay'
She's saying 'Yes but Daddy would mind' meaning 'I'd love to but I can't'.
I don't know what it's triggering for you but I think you really should try to look at the lyrics differently.

Have you got enough out of this thread now OP?

I’m truly sorry to hear of your experience, but I think you’re reading your own experience into a text that simply doesn’t support the comparison.

I hate that song. It's rape in pink ribbons. Sure there may be ways of presenting it that aren't, but that's not what's usually done. And I may not be old enough to remember the 1940s but I'm old enough to have an idea of what's changed and what hasn't, it's only my mother's young days not pre-history to me.

the woman wanting to stay over but that (woman's desire) not being socially acceptable.

Yes, that's what people still say when a victim complains after the fact. She really wanted to stay and have sex but she just couldn't admit it. And songs like that make that argument seem that bit more convincing.

It's a difficult decision. In the circumstances I'd probably do my bit of singing and grit my teeth during that song. And maybe have a word with the choir leader in the New Year. But then, I don't have to worry about the thing being personally triggering. Turning up is brave and so is speaking out but I wouldn't call not turning up cowardly, not for someone who's been on the receiving end themselves.

What are you implying ProperLavs? I asked a question, was told YABU, fought against that for a bit and then came round to the idea that there was a better way of dealing with things. I still find the song offensive and triggering and people repeatedly shouting 'stop the cheque' in relating to points that were raised on page 1 isn't going to suddenly change my mind because 90% of those points I already knew before I started.

That's how you here it. Maybe it's how it was intended. It isn't how I hear it and I can't exactly stop hearing it that way!

If you said the problem was you personally hearing something in the song taht would be a different matter, but you are asserting your interpretation as the right one.
Granted you're not as epically in the wrong as LittleMissMArker is, but you need to see it as an issue with how you hear it, not an issue in the song in itself.

what I mean is what else do you want from this? Surely there aren't any more POV you can get out of this thread?
if you don't want to sing, don't sing. If you have issues and don't want to sing then don't. it's not hard.

Michael Buble and Idina Menzel released a version with all the dodgy lyrics changed. Might be worth a look.

The vast majority of usage has been from people defending the song. Not sure if it has ever been used by the (small minority I accept) of people agreeing.

The very first person to use it on this thread was agreeing.

Lyrics; The answer is no

Everyone else: oh yeah, but she obviously doesn't really mean no

Yep. Brilliant attitude.

I think ProperLavs is suffering from thread fatigue

yeah I am-spot on!! need to step away.........

Granted you're not as epically in the wrong as LittleMissMArker is,

Nice clear assertion but no supporting argument.

Lyrics: Well Maybe just a half a drink more

Some people : oh, but she hasn't really changed her mind.