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Original poster

That Britain should rethink BREXIT

652 replies

WallisofWindsor · 06/12/2017 12:14

David Davis admitting that the impact of Brexit will be equal to the credit crunch should surely make the country revisit the decision.
Why put your country through such a difficult period?

OP posts:
Motheroffourdragons · 08/12/2017 15:33

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Peregrina · 08/12/2017 15:34

Norway didn't squander its oil wealth, which is one reason why it manages.

As for the Government minimising harm to northern cities like Liverpool and Manchester, if they cancelled HS2 and spent the money on the trans-pennine route, then I might believe it. I admit that HS2 going ahead surprises me, because it's going to cut through some delightful Tory voting parts of the Chilterns, and there won't be any stops there, so the residents will get zero benefit.

Sludgecolours · 08/12/2017 16:04

FaithHopeCharityDesperation

Well to be fair, Hezza being Hezza, he probably does think £4 billion is small change Smile but ...

The UK’s net contribution to the EU budget is approx 0.4% of GDP. That's around a quarter of what the UK spends on the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, and less than an eighth of the UK’s defence spend. The £116 per person net contribution is less than that from Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Germany and the Netherlands.

It is a bargain considering the benefits we get in return such as increased trade, access to skilled workers and cross-border know-how, increased investment flows, easier access to supply chains to name but a few.

The CBI suggests that the net benefit of EU membership to the UK could be in the region of 4-5% of GDP or £62bn-£78bn a year - that is roughly the economies of the North East and Northern Ireland put together. So I would say yes it is a snip when you look at the overall picture!

allegretto · 08/12/2017 16:10

The UK’s net contribution to the EU budget is approx 0.4% of GDP.

I think this wasn't stressed nearly enough in the campaign. Figures such as 350 million sound a lot to the average (wo)man in the street because we aren't used to thinking about the huge sums of money involved. When I first saw a pie chart of the Uk's contribution to the EU it really surprised me how SMALL it was - and what a bargain!

ragged · 08/12/2017 16:14

Woman (firm leave voter) in Stoke on Trent being interviewed on Radio 5 just now.
"Nobody said it would be this difficult or we would have XYZ problems. Why is it such a shambles? Nobody said it would be such a shambles."

Er, many of us who voted Remain said all of that would happen. We got "Project Fear!" shouted at us in reply. (sigh) Britain will muddle thru, but Brexit is all a huge hassle & waste of money & waste of opportunities.

howabout · 08/12/2017 17:00

allegretto if DC / GO et al hadn't been so obsessed with selling the idea of cutting the welfare bill by £12 bn then perhaps they would have been more credible when claiming the EU contribution was of little consequence.

For perspective the UK current budget deficit is about £45 bn. (in 20/01 there was a £17bn surplus and in 09/10 a £152 bn deficit)

GDP is about £2tn and Government debt £1.7tn (including £0.4tn of QE the Treasury ostensibly owes the BoE).

Osbornomics following on from Thatcher's corner shop analogies has a lot to answer for in sewing the seeds of misinformation.

www.economicshelp.org/blog/5922/economics/uk-budget-deficit-2/

sinceyouask · 08/12/2017 17:21

Why is it such a shambles? Nobody said it would be such a shambles

That makes me want to cry. We said over and fucking over that it would be a shambles. For fuck's sake.

Be3Al2SiO36 · 08/12/2017 17:28

Remain voter. Supporter of democracy.

You may wish to be updated on today's news as Phase 1 deal has been struck and things are looking as if they will continue to soften. Farage looks pissed off.

By the way Norway cannot be compared with other European nations. It is a small country, with clever people and it manages its affairs brilliantly. There are only 8 countries in the entire world with a meaningful Sovereign Wealth Fund (ie it puts away more money earned from its capital than it spends) and Norway has the highest per capita in the world. It is a pretty unique country.

curryforbreakfast · 08/12/2017 19:15

Why is it such a shambles? Nobody said it would be such a shambles

We said it a million times! We shouted it from the rooftops. We were told we were perpetuating "Project Fear" and doomongering. Hmm

snash12 · 08/12/2017 19:22

Too late. It’s agreed. Bore off Remoaners.

GoingIn · 08/12/2017 19:35

With any luck, it will be a very soft brexit. Keep everything else, but leave eu in name only.

ShizzleYoDrizzle · 08/12/2017 19:41

Farage looks pissed off.

Yep. Farage is very pissed off. Arron Banks is very pissed off.

T'would bring tears of joy to a glass eye. Grin

cathyclown · 08/12/2017 19:51

Well that's part one over the line now, you know enough progress has been made on the divorce bill, citizen rights and at last the Border issue to enable the negotiators to move on to Phase 2, the Trade module..

Well, well, well.

Trying not to be too negative here, but I think Phase 2 will be much more difficult than Phase 1 was. But I could be surprised I suppose given all the assurances regarding seamless regulatory alignment. ho ho ho.

Anyway, back to the issue of NI people being given freedom of movement. Well that will only happen if a NI citizen obtains an Irish (EU) passport. That applied under the GFA long before all this stuff. Sure even Ian Paisley Jr. (Remember his father) got one, and crowed about it on FB or something. But that is his right.

So there is nothing new about NI people being entitled to EU status. They always were, and always will be as long as the GFA remains. And that looks certain now.

curryforbreakfast · 08/12/2017 19:54

Too late. It’s agreed. Bore off Remoaners

nothing is actually agreed. This is not a deal, it is merely "sufficient progress" towards a deal.
Sorry that you don't understand what you voted for that.

ragged · 08/12/2017 20:21

So.. phase II. What might happen in phase II negotiations?

Just what trade deal will we get? Will most of it be about the 4.3 billion price tag?

JacquesHammer · 08/12/2017 20:36

Too late. It’s agreed. Bore off Remoaners

I don't think you're using the word "agreed" correctly. Nothing is agreed. Probably want to check you're actually comprehending the news before telling people to bore off..

curryforbreakfast · 08/12/2017 20:41

So.. phase II. What might happen in phase II negotiations?

Well Arlene Fosters remarks today were carefully worded so that while it looked like the DUP were tacitly agreeing with it, they actually are holding the right to totally tank it all in the next phase.

Regulatory alignment across the UK? FOM and no change to any cross border agreements on the only EU/UK land border? But still leaving the customs union and the single market.....they still haven't squared that circle. How is it actually going to work?

cathyclown · 08/12/2017 20:43

Agree, NOTHING has been agreed yet. Merely sufficient progress to enable negotiators to move on to the Trade Module.

It could all come unstuck then, and a Hard Brexit when they all throw their toys out of the pram.

But I am guessing that EU needs UK as much as vicey versey. So it will be softly softly, but not so easy as to encourage others to leave either.

There is a summit on the 14/15 December I think. Watch this space, but I reckon all will be well and everyone will go off and enjoy the Christmas period.

Seems to be a bit choreographed to little ole cynical me. But what do I know?

curryforbreakfast · 08/12/2017 20:43

But I am guessing that EU needs UK as much as vicey versey

That's hilarious. But no.

surferjet · 08/12/2017 20:47

Serious question for remainers.

Do any of you genuinely believe that Brexit can be halted?

And if it were to be stopped, what do you think the consequences would be?

cathyclown · 08/12/2017 20:48

curry,

I'm glad I gave you a laugh there!

But seriously, if it isn't true why the heck are they negotiating at all? UK could have just said Sayonara.

JacquesHammer · 08/12/2017 20:52

Do any of you genuinely believe that Brexit can be halted?

Yes. The very essence of the process means it can be halted.

And if it were to be stopped, what do you think the consequences would be?

For whom?

sinceyouask · 08/12/2017 21:01

Do any of you genuinely believe that Brexit can be halted?
Yes. I don't think it's likely, but it's definitely possible.

And if it were to be stopped, what do you think the consequences would be?
*We'd avoid the economic pain that Brexit will bring. No doubt there'd be some less welcome consequences- a UKIP revival maybe, perhaps they'd have a few MPs. A lot of consequences would depend on exaxrly how and why Brexit was halted, though.

ACertainRatio · 08/12/2017 21:02

Yes, Brexit can be halted in a number of ways. If Brexiteers disown a soft Brexit, it could all come crashing down.

Consequences? Change of government, Tory Party split in two, pro-EU PM so no Corbyn, UK left looking stupid (but this would be true were we to leave).

ButImNotOldYet · 08/12/2017 21:09

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g said it all three posts in.

Also they have a most excellent user name.