That Britain should rethink BREXIT

[WallisofWindsor]

David Davis admitting that the impact of Brexit will be equal to the credit crunch should surely make the country revisit the decision.
Why put your country through such a difficult period?

Yes yes, Farage's supporters are all 'sheep' with lots of other horrid characteristics, usually ending in "ist, isms", and "ics".

Whilst fans of Mr Drunckers and co, who cheer and gloat whenever the Brexit team strike an obstacle, are all lovely, virtuous. Oh and vastly more intelligent too...We get that, But most people who voted leave did so to regain sovereignty lost to the EU. Few actually believed they'd be any better off - financially - as a result.

lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

Ah the old "stop calling us all stupid just because we did a stupid thing for very stupid reasons that is now having very stupid effects that we didn't expect because we were really stupid about the whole thing".

Farage supporters tend to have horrible characteristics, like Farage. This is not news to anyone.

most people who voted leave did so to regain sovereignty lost to the EU. Few actually believed they'd be any better off - financially - as a result.

we knew it would be shit but we voted against our interests anyway.

Cool.

I hope this perceived sovereignty keeps you warm at night as the elite super rich who would have Brexit turn the UK into a low regulation, neoliberal wet dream cackle into their caviar at you.

"Liars, xenophobes and of course --- stupid".... Its interesting because in my experiance I've found that the Remainers knew the very least of what they were voting for.

Many actually thought we were leaving Europe. Which is fascinating really, given how they're all so well informed, much more intelligent, have university degrees etc.

But overwhelmingly the mix in age of Leavers were by far the more knowledgeable and they all knew why they were voting to leave. Some for democracy, for some it was sovereignty, some for immigration, but not many were concerned about the economy.

overwhelmingly the mix in age of Leavers were by far the more knowledgeable and they all knew why they were voting to leave.

Thanks for the laugh. In these fucked up times one needs to grasp at every amusement one finds.

The desire of many people to put their economic self interests second to that of regaining lost sovereignty, may seem "shit" to you sqoosh.

But for many the fact that between 13% and 65% of UK law is made by the EU, is unacceptable.

fullfact.org/europe/uk-law-what-proportion-influenced-eu/

You fell for the right wing spiel hook line and sinker. But let's see how many of you are still feeling quite so confident in your decision once the economy has tanked and the average Joe and Joanna sees a considerable drop in their standard of living.

Fret not though, Banks, Farage, Rees-Mogg and all the other elites will be a-okay 👌🏻

This is a view I'm coming round to. I am both a remainer (by vote) and a Euroskeptic. I voted remain because what is happening is exactly what I saw and the price was too high. Plus dispite my very many misgivings about the EU it's not all bad to be fair. Sometimes what's best isn't always perfect and continued membership holds its own worrying challenges. The Brexit campaign was a farce IMO from both sides. Both sides lying and spinning. I would suspect given another referendum more Euroskeptics would now come to the same conclusion I did back then and vote remain. I say not a landslide but enough to tip the ballence.

"Right wing" you see this as 'right against left' issue - is that it? If that's the case, why in 1975, could we have found Tony Benn, Michael Foot and Enoch Powell on the same 'NO / Out' platform. MrsThatcher and many Labour party members voting for 'IN / Stay'?

Then perhaps you can explain why George Galloway and Dennis Skinner are stridently opposed to the EU superstate today?

Can you explain also how and why the sources I've sited qualify as "spiel"?

ts interesting because in my experiance I've found that the Remainers knew the very least of what they were voting for

Bullshit. They were voting to do nothing,which you seem to still not understand.
They were voting to not tank the economy, ruin the NI peace, cause Scotland to keep trying to leave, and start the biggest brain drain in the history of the country.

You mean your Lord Ashcroft source? That famous multi millionaire, non dom who is pro Brexit? Ask yourself why this wealthy Tory peer who doesn't pay taxes in the UK is so in favour of Brexit.

Gosh, just think about it. If only Cameron, Blair and Brown had made a few small tweaks to immigration/benefit rules (like most other Western European nations did before allowing immigration from Eastern Europe) before the Referendum, then this whole Brexit chaos wouldn't be happening. Instead they thought that calling poor working class Northerners bigots and racists for having the temerity to not want their wage to be suppressed by cheap competition or their communities changed beyond all recognition, would shut them up. It's so typical of the elite "do as I say, not as I do" and so depressing!

Of course both sides exaggerated and spun that's referendums and elections for you...

I voted leave, vainly in the hope that it would force a meaningful renegotiation of our membership (and to see the end of the Blair/Cameron era). Like many people I was prepared for a real Brexit should the EU bureaucrats be intransigent. I wanted out of the jurisdiction of the European court, to regain lost sovereignty and for a brake on immigration.

I didn't believe any of the cods wallop about X amount of dosh for this or that good cause if we leave, or the plagues of locusts predicted by remain should we vote not to remain in.

Yes, I thought you'd be keen on slurring Ashcroft his character, motivations etc, but you haven't explained why the poll is wrong?

Slurring him? I'm pointing out facts. Why do you hate facts so much?

Your links won't open on my phone but as soon as I'm at a P.C I will have a look.

In the meantime ask yourself why Lord A is so in favour of Brexit. And do try to be honest with yourself.

There is no real argument. Referendums have no Constitutional legitimacy.

So presumably if there is another referendum in which Remain win, it can be ignored because it was only advisory and has no constitutional legitimacy? How many referendums should we have, best of 3? Coin toss (heads Remain wins, tails Leave loses) ?

I am still thinking we need somebody to do those sector reports. Are the Tories even going to bother?

We absolutely need a rethink on Brexit.

My main question stands: What will we gain from Brexit that we didn't already have? No one can answer it - not the leave voters I know, not my former Tory MP, not my current Labour MP.

The role of an MP is to act in the nation's best interests - if they fail to thoroughly assess the impact of a decision on the nation (impact reports), they are grossly negligent and not fit for office.

If the carry out impact assessments and then pretend they don't exist, rather than reveal their contents - they are mendacious, grossly negligent and not fit for office.

Either way, we are being governed by a bunch of incompetent, mendacious, self-serving ar*eholes. Why aren't more people angry about this?

Yes. You are missing the point entirely. Advisory referenda are exactly that: advisory. All of them. The general idea behind the UK adopted approach of parliamentary sovereignty is that decisions are made on behalf of the country by an elected body of informed individuals who are explicitly tasked with taking decisions in the best interests of the nation.

Last post in response to mothertruck3r

I voted leave, vainly in the hope that it would force a meaningful renegotiation of our membership (and to see the end of the Blair/Cameron era). Like many people I was prepared for a real Brexit should the EU bureaucrats be intransigent. I wanted out of the jurisdiction of the European court, to regain lost sovereignty and for a brake on immigration

And considering how it is all going, to you think there is any chance you will get any of the things you wanted?

Can I ask what you mean by "lost sovereignity"? I keep hearing this but no-one seems able to say what it actually means?

Advisory referenda are exactly that: advisory. All of them. The general idea behind the UK adopted approach of parliamentary sovereignty is that decisions are made on behalf of the country by an elected body of informed individuals who are explicitly tasked with taking decisions in the best interests of the nation.

Good Constitutional explanation.

There is nothing stopping us from stopping this.

I think you'll find its the EU that's stirring up trouble in NI Cheerios.

Perhaps people should really ask why so many people voted for Brexit rather than just calling them thickos, racists etc. It is all very well (and patronising) to insist that some poor working class family in an ex-mining town up North could have no other reason to vote Brexit than being a foaming racist but perhaps put yourself in their place and imagine that their life was not so cushy and that having to compete for jobs (with already low wages) with huge amounts of new immigrants (as well as seeing your community and culture changed over a very short period of time, not to mention the added pressure put on the local infrastructure, schools, hospitals, housing etc) was not going to make them feel all benevolent and thankful to the EU. Use your imagination and think outside your naice middle-class London bubble.

I think it is very hard for some people, living in London with big houses, job security in nice middle class, well paying and "intellectual" jobs to even begin to fathom or have any empathy with people who may have completely different life experiences to them (and who they see as intellectual inferiors). Plenty of people do not benefit from cheap EE nannies, do not benefit from having a spare house that can be rented out to immigrants to make some extra cash alongside a well paid job, do not benefit from all the luxuries that cheap EE immigration bestows on the "haves".

I think unless someone actually addresses the difficult question about why so many people voted for Brexit and listens to their concerns rather than rubbishing them, then another vote would just produce another leave result again.