How can a male win 2 silver medals in a women’s World Championship event

[bambambini]

Laurel Hubbard from New Zealand has just won 2 silver medals in the women's events in the Weightlifting World Championships in the US. Laurel at 39yrs old is much older than the other female competitors and has only really excelled in the sport to this level in the past few years for some reason.

www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11954269

I follow a few sports blogs and the vast majority of comments on topics like this, from both men and women, are about how unfair this is for women's sports. And indeed how unsafe it would be in sports like rugby.

GrouchyKiwi

Yeah also in MMA there was a transgender in the womens group. Joe Rogan was very vocal about how unfair that was.......and absolutely dangerous

None of the trans women i know have ever tried to beat me at rounders, look at my tits in a public toilet or shown me the contents of their undercrackers

When I speak about risk in the sporting arena, not ONE of those things is what I am concerned about

Not 'would be', but 'is' unsafe, according to this thread about a 6-ft tall leg-breaking girlie.

I'm a feminist but I think that trans people have the right to be protected. I don't think that the vast majority of trans people have any intention of transitioning to erode women's rights or to obtain an advantage.

Yes there will be some but I find the suggestion that male to female transitioning is happening with the deliberate intention of eroding women's rights quite ridiculous if I'm honest.

I don't think it's fair to suggest "scaremongering" by pointing out that something is considered a crime.

Really though, how do any of the other competitors, coaches or sports bodies discuss this in a way that won't lead to cries of transphobia and bigotry? No one wants to have to deal with all the abuse that would come with that, online and in the media. Most will just keep their thoughts to themselves. Or lose a significant amount of weight in order to compete in a different weight category to Laurel Hubbard, as one of the previous women competitors has done.

taratill

tbf though the topic of this thread is specific to sports. I'm sure the majority of transgender people are genuine but it is extremely unfair for a male sexed person to be in womens sports

But, do trans women- who have generally suffered quite enormously from prejudice etc- not disagree with the occasional opportunist who misappropriate their genuine cause and their genuine pain for their own selfish short term gain political agendasuch as in the sporting field etc?

Genuine question. I think the voices of women are being silenced, but also the voices of transwomen who must think ; WTF?I did not go through all of this and fight for respect just so you could access a women's only prison or get a medal in your chosen sport?

do we wil really think that that was her overall aim? Did she wake up one morning thinking "I never win , what can I do about it?" Do people really think that she went through all the trouble of transitioning just so that she could have an advantage in her sport?

Exactly this. This is exactly what I think happened. It’s is so blatant. They couldn’t take the piss any better if we handed them the catheters ourselves. That is exactly what is happening. You are describing it perfectly.

@AssassinatedBeauty

I didn't suggest anything. I asked a question which you didn't answer.

These issues are discussed and feelings made clear by the very women in the article that led to this thread.

"cries" is rightfully dismissive. It means nothing; to anyone. The mainstream media is largely silent on the subject.

But, do trans women- who have generally suffered quite enormously from prejudice etc- not disagree with the occasional opportunist who misappropriate their genuine cause and their genuine pain for their own selfish short term gain political agendasuch as in the sporting field etc?

When they speak out about it, they are also threatened with rape and murder. There is even a term for them...'truscum'

@BluePlasticBuddha

Excellent "genuine" question. Was it purely rhetorical or do you have any sources?

@DonnyAndVladSittingInATree

Who is "ourselves"? Still trying to pitch all women together?

it might surprise you to understand that you don't get to decide if this person is a he or a she

Yeah we do. I don't accept gender identity as primary over sex and I don't accept that he and she are subjective pronouns. They mean something. He is a pronoun for a male entity and she for a female. Laurel Hubbard is male, ergo he is the correct pronoun.

Genuine question. I think the voices of women are being silenced, but also the voices of transwomen who must think ; WTF?I did not go through all of this and fight for respect just so you could access a women's only prison or get a medal in your chosen sport?

Just look at how transwoman Miranda Yardley is called 'truscum' and sent horrendous abuse and threats for understanding the concerns of women. This despite putting thoughtful, intelligent and articulate viewpoints across, then you'll understand the reluctance of gender critical transwomen and transmen to speak up

tara
In response to your second paragraph 14.05 I suggest you read the thread just posted by Lancelottie. A trans female lesbian no less.

Some trans female was quoted saying that if every single female using the female toilets had been raped, the trans females (with fully functioning penises) had more the right to access the space. In what way are these people any different to MRA’s?

I appreciate they are a small minority of trans. But they are out there. Is this infiltration?

Dear God, Goal.

Right. So it's not about some men (and their apologists) misusing their centuries-old power at all then.

Nope it was a genuine question.

@AdalindSchade

Do intersex get to choose their pronouns?

@Trinity yes I agree it needs to be addressed in sport.

I'm referring to the posters who are referring to transitioned males to females as 'he' and the ones who are suggesting that transitioned males to females are doing so to look at my breasts or show me their penis.

I find that quite a bigoted attitude.

It isn't scaremongering.

The article doesn't mention any comments by the other competitors. Do you think if one of them stated that they thought it was unfair and that Laurel Hubbard had unfair advantages due to being male bodied that there would be no negative consequences for them?

BluePlastic
Yes I agree, hence my point about infiltration. If you can’t beat em join em.

I'm referring to the posters who are referring to transitioned males to females as 'he' and the ones who are suggesting that transitioned males to females are doing so to look at my breasts or show me their penis.

What is your definition of 'transitioned'?

OK, so at what point do we consider a male to have transitioned to female? At what point does he become she?
I don't believe you can change sex, so I don't think there is a point that this happens in terms of changing your sex. I am more willing to accept calling transwomen like Miranda Yardley she because she understands women's concerns, does not consider herself to be female and is not a dick about both these points
But what about Laurel? As far as I can see, there's been a measure of testosterone and 'identifying' as a woman. What, exactly, makes this person female? And given that they have taken the place of a female on the podium, why should I be nice and understanding towards them?

I find the suggestion that male to female transitioning is happening with the deliberate intention of eroding women's rights quite ridiculous if I'm honest.

Well male to female transitioning is physically impossible so it isn’t happening at all.

I find the suggestion that male to female transitioning is happening with the deliberate intention of eroding women's rights quite ridiculous if I'm honest

Absolutely.

But, do trans women- who have generally suffered quite enormously from prejudice etc- not disagree with the occasional opportunist who misappropriate their genuine cause and their genuine pain for their own selfish short term gain political agendasuch as in the sporting field etc?

Of course they do. But the threat of violence is too much, as is being ostracised from an already marginalised community.