How can a male win 2 silver medals in a women’s World Championship event

[bambambini]

Laurel Hubbard from New Zealand has just won 2 silver medals in the women's events in the Weightlifting World Championships in the US. Laurel at 39yrs old is much older than the other female competitors and has only really excelled in the sport to this level in the past few years for some reason.

www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11954269

But I don’t think men care. It doesn’t affect them.

I've just read that the level that the level of testosterone that Laurel had to demonstrate is within normal ranges for testosterone in men anyway. So he potentially had to do nothing medical at all. His testosterone levels could already easily have already been below the threashhold.

And yet if a woman had those testosterone levels she wouldnt be lower to compete.

• allowed

But I don’t think men care. It doesn’t affect them.

I don't think this is giving enough credit to men. Yes many won't care..but there are some decent men out there. And men who are interested in sport will see this as wildly unfair even at first glance.

Women can speak up about it all they like. They will just be branded transphobic. I doubt the screams of 'terf' would extend to men who spoke up about the obvious unfairness of it though.

Two silver medals is shocking the deafening silence of the press coverage on this matter more so. If it weren't for Mumsnet I wouldn't even know this

If it weren't for Mumsnet I wouldn't even know this
This

@AssassinatedBeauty

That's exactly what the 'R' stands for. Did I not understand you?

You use lots of 'may's and 'possibly's which doesn't seem convincing. I think your comment about a fair debate is a good one but is a consequence of modern society.

posted too soon.

a consequence of modern society where people are afraid to offend.

I think making a point of calling someone like Laurell Hubbard a man / he etc makes someone a bit of a dick but equally so, to suggest misgendering is a hate crime means you need to man woman up a bit.

Do you feel the same about women who transition to men. Do you also persist on referring to them as 'she' or does this just apply to male to female transition?

Chief it might surprise you to understand that you don't get to decide if this person is a he or a she. You have every right to question the issue of trans people in sports but insisting on calling someone who is identifying as a particular gender by the opposite is aggressive and says a lot about you and your real view on trans people.

You might be surprised to understand that you don’t know my real view on trans people. You may also be surprised to understand that I know I don’t get to decide if a person is a she or a he; their biological sex does that for them. I don’t accept gender is real or innate and neither do I accept that identifying as something makes you so. As a PP said, allowing niceness to accept pronouns as the opposite to what the person’s sex is was one of the things that started us along this road

You've misunderstood me wrt "radical". A radical feminist is not a feminist extremist.

Repeated/deliberate misgendering is a hate crime.

Besides, in what way is the person a woman? In what way does he get to claim to be female and be called she? As far as I can tell, there's been no transition, just a measure of testosterone. That in itself does not indicate that you are female

I believe that someone can transition to a new gender but not to the opposite sex. Therefore, Laurel Hubbard is a man. They might additionally be a transwoman but I don't know enough about them to be sure about this.

I'll go along with using the pronoun "she" so long as they are not being a man acting according to masculine stereotypes. At that point it starts to look like a game I'm disinclined to play.

I can see that this is an issue that sport ought to address to ensure fairness in competition but I don't think it is an excuse to promote some of the bigoted views I've seen on here to an already oppressed minority.

And certainly not in the name of feminism.

Why don't they just have a separate category? A male (XY) and a female (XX) and a transgender catergory. Or just categories of XX and XY, rather than male/female, regardless of appearance

Because it would not validate males who claim to feel that they are females and it would not provide an advantage to males who have 'transitioned' in order to win. It would be a possible solution though IMO

taratill

I think we already know the answer to that.

None of the trans women i know have ever tried to beat me at rounders, look at my tits in a public toilet or shown me the contents of their undercrackers.

floella and exactly how many trans men have tried to beat you at rounders or look at your tits or show you the content of your undercrackers?

What are you on about? No one's talking about anything like that?

It's to move the conversation away from a man cheating at sport by being in a competition for women. That's too inconvenient to discuss because it's a concrete example of the problem.

@AssassinatedBeauty

I still don't understand and it isn't deliberate (obtuse) but it's kind of immaterial anyway. When I said "self-described radicals" I was talking about bolshy posters who say things life 'TERF and proud". I immediately think 'twat'.

Having read citizensadvice.org (IANAL) on the subject, it seems that yes, misgendering could be a hate crime in the same way "stupid bitch" could be; neither have ever been tried to be prosecuted, as far as I can see. Have they or are you scaremongering?

When I read that a one off incident of teasing if due to a protected class can be a hate crime, it made me wince a little.

I could lift way better than my partner! Equality for all! 💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼

floella and exactly how many trans men have tried to beat you at rounders or look at your tits or show you the content of your undercrackers?

None. Because they're just people trying to live their lives like anyone else.

tara
Why not in the name of feminism? Feminism isn’t bigoted in any way. I would have thought in the name of feminism is perfectly correct.

Ridiculous and shouldn't be allowed, there is sex segregation in sport for a reason