How can a male win 2 silver medals in a women’s World Championship event

[bambambini]

Laurel Hubbard from New Zealand has just won 2 silver medals in the women's events in the Weightlifting World Championships in the US. Laurel at 39yrs old is much older than the other female competitors and has only really excelled in the sport to this level in the past few years for some reason.

www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11954269

And just a bit so small point, whatever your feelings about trans women in sport, and I think it's a very fair issue to raise, constantly calling this trans woman 'he' in all your posts really let's you down.

No, being nice about pronouns and saying transwomen are women has helped lead to this - where folk are now forced to say these things or they will be punished - no matter what people believe or think in their minds. This worries/angers me about this whole issue more than loos!

“Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.”

The thing is, it would almost be fine to let transgender women compete against women if we could all accept and discuss openly that it's not a fair fight. If we could say well Lauren Hubbard got silver but she wouldn't have if she hadn't been born male. And not have to follow this ridiculous Emperors New Clothes shtick where we have to be good little girls and say of course it's totally and utterly fair because men say so.

This to me is genuinely unfair. I say this as a Olympian where biological sex made little difference

there are sports where biological sex makes a massive difference.

With all her natural advantages over every other competitor, coming second is a pathetic achievement. She was terrible at the sport as a man and isnt great as a woman either. She should accept shes not very good at it

This is natural and to be expected, so women need to learn not to complain about it.
Why do we need to learn not to complain about it? Or was your post ironic?

Do people really think that she went through all the trouble of transitioning just so that she could have a advantage in her sport?

Yes. I think some bonkers males do this. Infiltration.

seafood

Because men do what they want and women are expected to shut up and accept it.

I believe the only transitioning Hubbard has done is to grow their hair and wear pink trainers.

www.smh.com.au/sport/athletics/new-zealand-transgender-lifter-laurel-hubbard-bids-for-gold-at-worlds-20171204-gzy5xx.html

Come on.

wow, you know nothing about weightlifting and you're really unkind. you have no compassion and i hope nobody ever treats you as awfully as you (all) are behaving now

Women, don't be unkind and point out the reality you see in front of you. Be nice and quiet...

And just a bit so small point, whatever your feelings about trans women in sport, and I think it's a very fair issue to raise, constantly calling this trans woman 'he' in all your posts really let's you down

In what way is this person female? Genuine question, what makes them a woman and therefore a ‘she’?

I am very prepared to be shouted down by the MN brigade for clearly missing the point , however Laurel may well have had an advantage, but do we wil really think that that was her overall aim? Did she wake up one morning thinking "I never win , what can I do about it?" Do people really think that she went through all the trouble of transitioning just so that she could have an advantage in her sport? Life is always going to be unfair. I think it is grossly unfair that people who are naturally more intelligence than me got higher marks in their exams, it's not my
fault that I am not very academic, they had advantage because they are brainier than me....................said no one ever!

I’m not really concerned what their overall aim was tbh, I’m concerned that they didn’t give a shite that they are cheating in spirit, if not in law. I’m concerned that this was fully sanctioned the the sport’s governing body. I’m concerned that the female competitors are unable to raise objections either officially or through what they may want to say

Do people really think that she went through all the trouble of transitioning just so that she could have a advantage in her sport?

I don’t really care in general whether or not this is the case because it’s still unfair. But in this particular case, yes, yes I do

@BetramTheWalrus, I was trying to summarize what @TheLittleShirt was saying. To be very clear, I absolutely do not agree with it.

I'm just gobsmacked by the interview with a trans spokesperson who said that Laurel has had to attain lower testosterone levels, which of course makes it so much more difficult to stay fit and compete. Isn't that the whole point? That women have the lower levels naturally anyway????????

Yes, I think there is confusion about the word 'transition'. I think some people think that it means having invasive penis-chopping surgery at the very least.

But transition to some people can mean waking up one day and feeling like a woman, whatever that is. And putting on pink trainers. That's it. And deciding against any surgery.

And of course when your sports career is finally over in the future you can feel like a man again. Easily.

So when someone says "You really think they went through all that in order to cheat?" then the chances are that they actually didn't go through a lot at all.

Honestly, I think the majority of people think that to have transitioned then you've had a sex change. My dh thought this until a few weeks ago. He thought what I was saying was laughable and paranoid. Until he read something himself (thanks dh ) and now he is as incredulous as me.

Why don't they just have a separate category? A male (XY) and a female (XX) and a transgender catergory. Or just categories of XX and XY, rather than male/female, regardless of appearance.

There is an undeniable physical advantage to those who are XY, whether their appearance is female or male. Their whole body and physique is different.

If we didn't have such ridiculous gender stereotypes, and everything was gender neutral, then men could dress how they please, including in a feminine way, and still be men.

Why does wearing make-up, long hair and "female" clothing make them female? Wearing trousers and short hair and no makeup doesn't make me male. Feeling unfeminine doesn't make me male.

Chief it might surprise you to understand that you don't get to decide if this person is a he or a she. You have every right to question the issue of trans people in sports but insisting on calling someone who is identifying as a particular gender by the opposite is aggressive and says a lot about you and your real view on trans people.

Feeling undeniable doesn't make you trans I think is what you are saying glitterfarts. Quite right.

Unfeminine

@Scabbersley - why can't a woman talk openly about this? They can and do. I wasn't proven to be the victim. It was equipment tampering as opposed to drugs cheating so there was no proof of previous issues.

@BluePlasticBuddha - not Olympic level. Some competitors were but it was just a weekend event.

@AssassinatedBeauty - Sometimes rules need to be changed. Not laws but rules. "[cheating] can't even be mentioned as you'll be accused of a hate crime." By whom? An internet troll or CPS because it's only the latter which counts a jot.

Cheating in sport bothers me but as I said in a deleted post (God knows why nothing wrong besides a sarcastic comment about daily trans threads) I feel jaded by non-issues. Topshopchangingroomgate was when I hit peak anti-trans. The other issue which makes me so anti-terf is the way it is so anti-men. There are replies on every thread about how this is male entitlement, men are awful, men don't care, patriarchy blah blah*. I think these often self-described radicals are making a slightly concerning issue into an awful one and it benefits no one, especially not their cause.

*with the obligatory 'except my DH"

I won't be gaslighted into calling a he a she.

I won't be gaslighted into calling a he a she

My seventy year old neighbours are more tolerant and enlightened than you. Your attitude is disgraceful.

“Do people really think that she went through all the trouble of transitioning just so that she could have an advantage in her sport?”

What trouble?! What transition? What exactly are you imagining "she" went through? All he had to do was wake up one morning and tell people he was a woman now, and then get his testosterone levels down a little bit. Why would that be so hard?

Women competitors should just start identifying as trans women so they can up their testosterone levels. I mean not really of course, not many women would want to do that, but I'd love to see the reaction.

@meatyLoaf, "radical" doesn't mean extreme/extremist in the context of feminism.

The only way to question this kind of rule is to say things which will be considered transphobic. Athletes/competitors who do this may well be disciplined by their sports authority, as well as possibly being referred to the police as a hate crime. This does not make it a fair debate when one side has to carefully tiptoe around language for fear of the consequences.

The more 'women' like Hubbard the better. This won't go away until men start to realise whats actually happening. I hope Hubbard does enter the Olympics or something, to 'peak trans' a bunch of men at once.

I love the way that article says

"Her rivals have expressed unease at a perceived advantage"

Perceived? It's not just perceived. It's real