Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

How can a male win 2 silver medals in a women’s World Championship event

262 replies

bambambini · 06/12/2017 09:08

Laurel Hubbard from New Zealand has just won 2 silver medals in the women's events in the Weightlifting World Championships in the US. Laurel at 39yrs old is much older than the other female competitors and has only really excelled in the sport to this level in the past few years for some reason.

www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11954269

OP posts:
DonnyAndVladSittingInATree · 06/12/2017 10:02

I’ll have to love you and leave you all, I’m off to make the most of my ladies’ yoga class, while it still exists.

AssassinatedBeauty · 06/12/2017 10:03

The thing is though, @meatyLoaf, is that it absolutely isn't a battle against cheats. No cheating, according to the current rules, has gone on here at all. Nothing to complain or object to. You will be absolutely pilloried and harangued for suggesting that there has been cheating or that any of the competitors had an unfair advantage. It can't even be mentioned as you'll be accused of a hate crime.

PsammeadPaintedTheLion · 06/12/2017 10:07

I have a really stupid question - does transgender mean that the person in question has medically (surgery and hormones etc) changed their sex? Or does it just mean that they ‘identify’ as the opposite sex despite retaining the physical and hormonal aspects of their original sex?

AssassinatedBeauty · 06/12/2017 10:10

No one can change their sex, but they can change their presentation. The second of your statements is correct, identification is all that's required. For most sport, there needs to be some hormone intervention to reduce testosterone for trans-identifying men, to a level that is 4 times higher than a typical women's level and at the lowest end for men.

Mummyoflittledragon · 06/12/2017 10:11

I’m struggling to see any sport, where a male doesn’t have the competitive edge over a female. Even if it is hormonal advantages as theirs only flutuate on a daily basis.

Males have larger muscle fibres (which I understand is mainly why they are stronger), have a larger proportion of lean tissue in their upper bodies and proportionately larger limbs. A woman of equitable size, who trains equally as hard as a man will not be as strong because males are stronger relative to lean body mass. And women naturally hold more fat.

Lweji · 06/12/2017 10:11

I know very little about weightlifting, but isn't it a sport (activity) where competitions are separated by weight?

As such, I suppose it could become a unisex sport, perhaps with more smaller weight (or another body measure) categories, rather than sex.

This could be a solution for the sex/trans issue, perhaps.

Aeroflotgirl · 06/12/2017 10:13

He is at an un fair advantage, he may identify as a woman, but he still biologically male, you cannot change your genetics. Men's body differs from females.

ZigZagandDustin · 06/12/2017 10:14

I remember playing football and the girl marking me was over 6 foot with massive hands (Gaelic football so we use our hands). The rest of us were all so petite it was hardly fair!

I'm vaguely interested to see how this goes with trans women in sport. She was beaten. I suspect trans women do have an advantage but maybe only enough to make it into the top set, not the #1/2/3 spot necessarily. If they are frequently beaten by women born female into the future then that is certainly interesting.

ZigZagandDustin · 06/12/2017 10:15

And just a bit so small point, whatever your feelings about trans women in sport, and I think it's a very fair issue to raise, constantly calling this trans woman 'he' in all your posts really let's you down.

AssassinatedBeauty · 06/12/2017 10:15

Unisex with weight categories won't be fair for women, as a woman at the same weight as a man would be less strong, and have a different shape pelvis, different length limbs, different sized hands, different sized heart/lungs, different bone mass, different amount of body fat distributed differently etc.

Lweji · 06/12/2017 10:19

I'd really like to see some research.

My body is not (or didn't grow to be) very good for weightlifting, as I am naturally thin and have a slim bone structure. I'd never be able to compete against more strongly built females anyway.

But whereas the strongest women will never match the strongest men, I do not know if we can't define categories that could place men and women on more level fields.

BertramTheWalrus · 06/12/2017 10:20

Donny put it wonderfully in her first post.

This is so fucking bonkers words fail me. I just hope people will look back at this in ten years' time and shake their heads in disbelief.

Popchyk · 06/12/2017 10:20

Just looked it up.

Transitioned (and that word can mean anything) at age 35. 4 years ago.

And here's how it all happened. Follow the money. Laurel Hubbard's father is a rich man.

Gavin Hubbard (as he was) was Executive Officer for Olympic Weightlifting New Zealand until last year when the position was abolished.

"Hubbard responded to the loss of his authority by funding a new state-of-the-art weightlifting facility to host and sponsor the OWNZ competition itself.

OWNZ then authorized the women’s competition that Hubbard won on Sunday March 19 at the Australasion Championships in Melbourne.

OWNZ cited IOC guidelines for transgenderism, which allow any male who can prove his testosterone levels are 10 nmol/L or below for one year duration to compete in the women’s division. Any female can compete in the male category if she qualifies regardless of her hormone levels. No female athlete has ever qualified to compete against males under IOC guidelines."

link here

Pickleypickles · 06/12/2017 10:23

It makes me so cross Angry
I feel like women are taking a step back 50 years just incase we pffend any men Angry

TheLittleShirt · 06/12/2017 10:24

I am very prepared to be shouted down by the MN brigade for clearly missing the point , however Laurel may well have had an advantage, but do we wil really think that that was her overall aim? Did she wake up one morning thinking "I never win , what can I do about it?" Do people really think that she went through all the trouble of transitioning just so that she could have an advantage in her sport? Life is always going to be unfair. I think it is grossly unfair that people who are naturally more intelligence than me got higher marks in their exams, it's not my
fault that I am not very academic, they had advantage because they are brainier than me....................said no one ever!

mirialis · 06/12/2017 10:24

She was beaten. I suspect trans women do have an advantage but maybe only enough to make it into the top set, not the #1/2/3 spot necessarily

Do you think 39 year old females would have had a chance at gold/silver/bronze against their 20-something competitors?

AssassinatedBeauty · 06/12/2017 10:26

I really don't want to be accused of "shouting down", but essentially what you're saying here is that transgender women will always have an advantage over women. This is natural and to be expected, so women need to learn not to complain about it.

NoHunsHereHun · 06/12/2017 10:30

"Hubbard finished runner-up in the snatch..."
There's some justice at least.

AfunaMbatata · 06/12/2017 10:30

Do people really think that she went through all the trouble of transitioning just so that she could have an advantage in her sport?

Yep, yep I do.

busyboysmum · 06/12/2017 10:34

Do people really think that she went through all the trouble of transitioning just so that she could have an advantage in her sport?

Just read Popchyk's post - its obvious that this is what has happened.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 06/12/2017 10:38

Has Hubbard fully transitioned as in had surgery

Regardless yes I do think people would go to that extreme so they have an advantage

Pickleypickles · 06/12/2017 10:40

essentially what you're saying here is that transgender women will always have an advantage over women. This is natural and to be expected, so women need to learn not to complain about it.

I think complaining is exactly what women do need to do about it. They have an unfair advantage due to being born a man.

MismatchedCat · 06/12/2017 10:43

Do people really think that she went through all the trouble of transitioning just so that she could have an advantage in her sport?

Who cares?

Hubbard's intentions don't make the situation any less unfair.

CoteDAzur · 06/12/2017 10:43

“Do people really think that she went through all the trouble of transitioning just so that she could have an advantage in her sport?”

I don’t give a shiny one WHY some guy tries to pass for a woman.

What I care about are the women thrown under the bus just so they can live their fantasy.

seafoodeatit · 06/12/2017 10:46

Because the best woman for a job/sport is a woman with a girly brain, I don't mean those with ovaries/front holes/non men/menstruators or whatever the current term is, no, actual women, the ones with a penis, they are the real women here, non penis ladies need to back away and focus on bigger issues, like fight for their right to go in the men's toilets cause clearly with their non approval of street abuse/ heckling and lack of drag makeup they are just men in denial.