To think no one is supprised by the shcoking poverty in the UK

[Itsgonnabeacoldone]

People act like it's a shock or something not expected. But you would have to be seriously out of touch to be surprised by this

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/04/uk-government-warned-over-sharp-rise-children-pensioner-poverty-study

There is no absolute poverty in this country. It’s all relative. But at the same time, we offer a lot in terms of benefits to kids in need directly - imagine a lot of child benefit and child tax credit probably doesn’t then go on to filter to the children it’s meant to help. Also imagine that most child poverty exisits in families who earn just above the threshold for child tax credit.

Jonsnowswife how is a LL a rogue for kicking out tenants? It's HIS house, provided he serves a S21 notice correctly, which gives tenants 2 months notice, how is it wrong if he wants HIS property back? That is one of the pitfalls of renting - and I say this as someone who will never earn enough to buy a home so will likely be renting forever.

There are rogue LL's out there yes, but serving correct notice on a tenant isn't one of them

Old enough to remember nationalised industry and utilities. They were shit. It's shit now but not as shit.
My dad lived through grinding poverty in 30s. No it is not as bad as that. However, People are being left behind and we need to have an honest conversation with each other about what that means for us all.

Two adults working and making a joint household income of only £45,000 are considered "doing so well" here on MN when that would be poverty wages in any other country.

That is so laughably wrong on so many levels.

@SusannahL

^Some of the homeless are in that situation because of how they have chosen to live, ie alcoholism, drug addiction.
Neither of those are illnesses by the way, they are lifestyle choices.^

Because none of them are self-medicating because of untreated mental health problems/inadequate mental health services, none of them are ex-armed forces unable to cope with normal life and none of them are care leavers.

Nope, just a lifestyle choice.

Here, have a

Iamclearlyamug I said rogue landlords. I didn't call all landlords rogues. There is a difference. Or are you suggesting yourself that all landlords are rogues?

Old enough to remember nationalised industry and utilities. They were shit. It's shit now but not as shit.
So am I - in fact some things now are more shit, not least the gut-wrenching bonuses being paid to the people at the top when they preside over stuff that is average at best.

Well, I am on a small pension + state and I manage perfectly well!

Well, I am on a small pension + state and I manage perfectly well!

May as well close this thread then.

Housing needs sorting out, urgently. When people are paying in rent many times more than they would for the mortgage they could afford but can't get approved for, you know there has to be a need for greater regulation of the market.

Well, I am on a small pension + state and I manage perfectly well!

And when I retire in a few years I will manage perfectly well too but that doesn't mean I am so narrow minded as to think everyone does.

As for some of the comments on this thread the lack of empathy is disgusting. I really hope you never get sick, have an accident or a personal catastrophe, all of which can lead to severe financial and often emotional problems.

I find it disgraceful that to think people should poverty should get a bit of help is considered "the politics of envy." No wonder Conservatives have a bad name when so many of them think like that. And I am not a Corbyn fan, by the way and haven't actually voted Labour for 20 years - but I will be in the next election,.

If you're here as "an illegal immigrant" you won't get any benefits

It's not quite that simple though, is it? In the case of non EU immigrants there's the issue of when, realistically, they become "illegal" - is it after the endless application/appeals process, or are others correct in saying they're illegal by default if they're wilfully ignored the rules about the first safe country reached?

There's also the help given while immigrants' status is decided, and even after they've been refused residency - not the full raft of benefits, admittedly, but help nevertheless: www.gov.uk/asylum-support

Then of course there are NHS/education costs and even the money spent by charities which receive government funding ... not strictly "benefits" in the way it was meant, perhaps, but public money all the same

As I said, it really isn't as straightforward as "they get nothing"

Well, I am on a small pension + state and I manage perfectly well!
Good for you. I'm on benefits and I don't. I'm quite severely disabled, I am worried about my heating; I'm still paying last years heating bill off. I didn't intend to become so ill that it disabled me, but hey, benefit scrounging scum I am.

well have had cancer and a gastroparesis does that count?

Puzzled and the long term gain is of course that they become contributory members of society.

Well, I am on a small pension + state and I manage perfectly well!

I'm alright Jack much? How appallingly crass

Ok, here's something for you. I work, part time but i work. I had 3 part time jobs up until the summer where, even then i scraped by at 28/30 hours a week. Two of those jobs, due to cut backs were scrapped so i am now down to one. I'm still searching for more work.
Where i live jobs are like hens teeth with people clamouring for any that come up. I suffer from ill health but am not entitled to any benefits, fair do's, not a problem and i would feel guilty taking it if i was because others need it but cant get it IYSWIM.
I earn about £7000 a year now. Thats it. by the time my rent is paid, council tax, insurance, gas and electric, i struggle to buy food. Or if i buy food i struggle to heat the house for the month. I cant afford new clothes, i'm showering once a week to save electric washing down the rest of the time. My heating goes on for a couple of hours at night to take the chill off the house and thats it, even when it was snowing and below 0 the other week. I'm still waiting to hear if i'm entitled to housing benefit that i applied for 2 months ago as well as looking for more work in the hope i wont need the housing benefit.
Any way there you go, a wee snapshot of the working poor.

I'm loving the idea that Jeff Bezos became worth over 97 billion USD by barely making any profit from Amazon.
There are a huge range of reasons behind poverty, but if you look at wage stagnation compared to inflation over the last 3 decades, you can see how companies have come to rely on being able to underpay, leaving the government to be the safety net. Obviously we need a safety net so we need to ensure that taxes increase and companies pay their fair share.
Trickle down has been proven to not work but to be incredibly destructive on an economy (Kansas), but looking at Nordic models with fair taxation and wages gives an actual model to work to.
Brexit is going to destroy our current system anyway so may as well decide how to rebuild.
And anyone who thinks there is no real poverty in the UK is living in a wonderful bubble. Austerity has lead to disabled people starving to death, families being spilt and malnutrition beginning to effect people. It's also been shown to be a false economy (example, the family that had increased costs of £44 a week they couldn't find, leading to kids taken into care costing tax payer £1000+ a week. )
But we all know trolls have an issue with facts that don't fit so sure they can find some retracted story about someone getting something they shouldn't be entitled to....

There is no answer to poverty being blunt and honest about it. I have helped out for 30 years at drop in centres, have 3 social workers in the family and a brother who works with young offenders. I have a pretty fair grasp of what goes on in my local very mixed area. The current cuts are shocking but it’s not all about money. Before anyone gets at me, yes more would be good for for benefits and social services. Some families however live in chaos, they have lots of children, they can’t cope with money, often the kids go without and the cycle perpetuates itself through the generations. And that’s without the added horror of drink and drugs etc. I personally can’t see how to break that cycle for those people, who just really can’t cope. So I wasn’t shocked at the poverty, more depressed that we as a society can’t help more.

the long term gain is of course that they become contributory members of society

Indeed it is - and a worthy aim too

However I'd be interested to know just how likely this is, in the case of those applicants who've lied and cheated their way into a system which they perceive to be most beneficial to themselves, while ignoring the perfectly valid methods of applying for residency elsewhere

Let me be clear that I absolutely accept some are doing it out of desperation, but when even immigration organisations admit that many are doing anything but, I do have to wonder

I'm a sahm but am looking for work. Last time I was job hunting was 15 years ago. I was to see wages for jobs I'm looking at are at the level they were at 15 years ago! Yet, the value of my house has more than doubled in that time...not to mention all the other living costs. It's unbelievable.

drink and drugs

So these pensioners are party animals, is that correct?

Apologies ... I read "gain" as "aim" ... stupid of me

However my point still holds good that, no matter what the aim/gain/whatever, it really isn't true - as posters frequently insist - that illegal applicants get nothing

Actually just looked online, and saw what my house was worth 15 years...it's actually quadrupled in value. Not a stealth boast...it's an average house. It's appalling that wages haven't kept up with the cost of living.

I'm loving the idea that Jeff Bezos became worth over 97 billion USD by barely making any profit from Amazon.

It's perfectly possible, indeed very common for companies to be worth a huge amount on paper and trade at a loss. It's very easy to blame Amazon etc for the woes of the world, but nobody ever comes up with a good solution. They already do pay tax on the sales they make in this country, it's called VAT. If we charged them corporation tax on profits made abroad, then presumably we'd be happy with our own exporters being charged the same in their countries of sale?