To think no one is supprised by the shcoking poverty in the UK

[Itsgonnabeacoldone]

People act like it's a shock or something not expected. But you would have to be seriously out of touch to be surprised by this

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/04/uk-government-warned-over-sharp-rise-children-pensioner-poverty-study

[meredintofpandiculation]

Again, this Zero hour contracts meme is used, the actual numbers do not back up the assertion It's a shorthand. Problems of zero hours contracts are shared by those on, say, 10hours contracts. Contracted hours insufficient to live on, "flexibility" is with employer so you can neither plan your life more than a few days ahead, nor find another job to supplement your hours. With the best will in the world, a busy shift manager needing someone at short notice is not going to waste time phoning someone who said "no" last time, no matter how good their reason. Yes, working tax credits enabled this.

[makeourfuture]

You won't have a choice over where you work

This is silly.

However, the Tories are keen on making people work for free.

[Dapplegrey]

Make - there's another thread about a revolution in Britain. Would you be prepared to take up arms?

[makeourfuture]

Revolution means bodies in ditches. We can find a better way.

[thecatfromjapan]

Bless you, NotAbled, you need to get out and about a bit more. There's a whole world out there and it exists in a multitudinous glory between the strange, fictional, extremes you paint. Go and see it; wander through it - it's beautiful and terrifying and boring and wonderful.

Big businesses paying a bit more tax will be good for everyone. For a start, it means more money for infrastructure, which means happy, healthy workers, who can afford to work for the big businesses.

I hate the whole rhetoric of "Corbyn's going after the Bankers!!" - which i hear from the right and the left. I get why the left are doing it: they want to capitalise on people's feelings of anger and frustration. But it's shit, frankly. It dehumanises and 'others' people who work - at all levels - in the financial services - the financial services which are a huge part of our GDP. It's idiotic.

And it paints closing tax loopholes as an extreme measure. It really isn't. It's sensible and fair and very pragmatic in the long run.

Oddly enough, most people working in that sector know that.

So, my Christmas wish is that the whole "Corbyn's going after the Bankers" gets left to the rabid right-wing press.

I don't think we've ever had a policy whereby the state determines where people work. I doubt we ever will. That said, I sometimes think the French and Greek policy of requiring graduates in education (France) and medicine (Greece) to work in some of the less-populated regions for a year isn't all bad. However, can't see it flying here.

If Amazon makes no profit, how come its founder is worth 100 billion? I'm curious.

[thecatfromjapan]

... and back to the OP.

I've noticed the rise in homelessness. It's right there, in front of my eyes. I'm old enough to remember moving to London during the years when homelessness was a disgrace. And I watched it lessen, too. Now it's risen again.

It's freezing. People are dying. It's appalling and a stain on our conscience as a nation. To be asked to accept this is an outrage.

[manicinsomniac]

Companies like Amazon pay little tax because they make little profit, and what profit they do make is re-invested providing thousands of jobs all which pay tax and NI. If you want companies to pay tax on turnover fine, but most of you will be out of job tomorrow as your boss couldn't pay your wage due to his paying tax on money he hasn't earnt yet

Wait, what? Is this true?
I've been feeling guilty every time I use Amazon for years - and trying not to use it wherever possible.
If the above is true, I'll be a much happier Amazon purchaser!

Poverty in the UK still shocks me. I don't tend to see it much. So when I read about the scale and severity it still has the ability to surprise me. That's my problem for not coming out of my bubble enough though.

[shouldnthavesaid]

My mum lives in poverty - she's been waiting on a PIP appeal for a year after being told daily generalised seizures aren't enough of a disability.

She can't afford fruit and veg, or to leave her village . Can't afford to travel to GP surgery (nearest is 2 miles away). Can't pay the bills. Severely autistic sister was on the phone to me crying her eyes out as found mum's fridge virtually empty except for butter and milk. We're making her a food parcel for her Christmas.

I cant see why it should take 12 months to sort this out and I bet if God willing she does get PIP (after a lifetime DLA) she won't get a back payment.

[CheapSausagesAndSpam]

Shouldnthavesaid that's bloody terrible :( I'm so sorry. Does your sister live with your mum?

Have you spoken to a food bank for her?

[JonSnowsWife]

There is a huge problem with the way poverty is defined as people who are below a certain percentage of average earnings

Why Lunas? Do let the Tories know. Given they were the ones that redefined what poverty meant

[JonSnowsWife]

Companies like Amazon pay little tax because they make little profit,

😂

Oh that is funny. Oh wait you were serious?

[JonSnowsWife]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/amazon-refuses-reveal-how-much-10959852

[thecatfromjapan]

I'm also really fed up with the rise of what would have been seen as extremely right wing views five years ago trotted out as though they are vaguely right-of centre.

Come on, when did it become anything other than the viewpoint of extreme right wing, swivel-eyed nutters to suggest that people dying on the streets, disabled people being persecuted, and families going without food is acceptable?

Have we genuinely moved that far from the tolerant centre? Or is it a mind-game being played on us by a disparate coalition of right wing propagandists?

I actually do believe that the majority of the UK thinks this is unacceptable, despite the co-option of media, which has us all thinking there has been a massive shift to the right.

It's not acceptable. I believe the majority of the UK thinks it's unacceptable. And I utterly resist actions that attempt to tell me I -
and others - should be thinking this is acceptable.

[Justanotherlurker]

Why Lunas? Do let the Tories know. Given they were the ones that redefined what poverty meant

She could have been mentioning that the current metric of measuring poverty and inequality actually went down in 2008? That in itself shows how floored the metric is, and it doesn't mean one is in support of the Tories either, this partisan shit is infesting mumsnet

Come on, when did it become anything other than the viewpoint of extreme right wing, swivel-eyed nutters to suggest that people dying on the streets, disabled people being persecuted, and families going without food is acceptable?

Care to point out one, or are you labelling anything other than complicit support as extreme right wing?

[makeourfuture]

And the thing is, this Tory Regime, they don't even mention these things, much less anything of substance regarding economic growth.

I look at the news and for some reason they have decided to stir up Ireland instead.

[JonSnowsWife]

She could have been mentioning that the current metric of measuring poverty and inequality actually went down in 2008?

They specifically mentioned how it was defined.

This type of partisan shit is infesting mumsnet.

Facts are facts.

[RestingGrinchFace]

That isn't actually a measure of poverty, it's a measure of how wealthy you are compared to your neighbours. Under that system you could live in Richmond and have everything you need plus luxuries and still be living in poverty while someone in rural wales could be unable to afford to heat their house all winter and not be in poverty. This statistic literally means nothing when discussing poverty and actually minimises the suffering of those who live in real poverty. If you truly care about eradicating poverty you need to have some integrity and identify real poverty in order to be able to discover its causes and come up with a solution. Of course the British left is so hellbent on playing envy politics that they don't actually care about the truth.

[Cabamba]

I was born into poverty the son of two people themselves from huge families, who had a very large family of their own. Poverty for me was of a different order to today's ideas. Furthermore, the message to me and my siblings was to get out into the world and compete. We did just that, and politics never entered into our young lives - we found our own.
There will always be those who fall to the bottom of the pile, sometimes because of poor abilities, or lack of motivation or bad luck, but a devil of a lot from a lack of planning in their lives.
No government will eradicate relative poverty (because poverty today is way better than that I knew) but only when people have done their best, planned their lives well but encountered bad luck, do I have any truck with their complaints, and in my experience, government blaming is simply the refuge of the politically blind, imho.

[shouldnthavesaid]

cheapsausages no, sister is in supported living scheme. I'm 150 miles away so mum's alone :( it worries me all the time. Sister does stuff to do with food banks but being autistic and blunt , said she'd rather use her own income (ESA and PIP) to make a box of stuff mum would actually eat. Apparently she's going to fill it with chocolate biscuits, pasta, peanut butter and cat/dog food (Can't begrudge mum having either as they're her company).

I said I'd match sister's box with one filled with hair and beauty stuff, like decent shampoo and posh smellies. I was tearful last night as mum asked if I could buy her some pantliners and that shouldn't be something she puts up without :(

[JonSnowsWife]

Of course the British left is so hellbent on playing envy politics that they don't actually care about the truth.

God forbid the opposition should actually oppose policies that have left people in poverty.

[makeourfuture]

government blaming is simply the refuge of the politically blind, imho.

Are you saying government is not envolved in economics? Or that they are, but we shouldn't complain when they are making a mess of it?

[Lizzie48]

I know, it's shocking. Public sector workers had a pay freeze for several years and then had a 1% pay cap under the austerity. We've really noticed it. Thankfully my DH has had a promotional and is on a good salary but the same isn't true for a lot of people. How can it be right for nurses be having to resort to food banks in London??

[JonSnowsWife]

shouldnthavesaid bless your poor mum.

That's the side that people don't see. They just like to shout about people having sky subscriptions and iPhones which means people like your poor mum are brushed under the carpet. If she'll let you, either you or your sister ring the tribunal up and ask how much longer shes likely to wait. The average for PIP is around 18months because the courts are that backed up. Its a ridiculous waste of money given a significantly high percentage of cases are overturned at tribunal.

[JonSnowsWife]

government blaming is simply the refuge of the politically blind, imho.

How churlish. Yes of course pointing out the obvious is people being politically blind. Welfare Reform Act = on the Tories watch. Health & Social Care Act = on the Tories watch. Cuts to police = on the Tories watch. Homelessness since 2010 = tripled - again on the Tories watch.

If it makes you feel better to wilfully ignore the blindingly obvious that's entirely up to you but the Tories are still entirely to blame for this mess. It's called accountability.

[ScrommidgeClaryAndSpunt]

Companies like Amazon pay little tax because they make little profit...

Nope. They are all making money hand over fist, but they have carefully arranged their affairs to ensure that scarcely any of it is subject to UK corporation tax. This is not new information.

...re-invested providing thousands of jobs all which pay tax and NI...

Nope. Paying over the PAYE deductions every month doesn't make them Good Corporate Citizens. Firstly, those employees would be subject to income tax and NICs in some measure wherever they happened to work; secondly, the typical rate of pay for (e.g.) an Amazon warehouse operative is low enough that they would probably be entitled to tax credits in some form, which would more or less cancel out any gain to the Exchequer.

It might perhaps be better if large corporate entities started regarding payment of tax as a service charge for the ability to operate in what is, by global standards, a stable jurisdiction with decent infrastructure and no lack of customers; however, they have no incentive to do so, so we're stuck with what we have.