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Original poster

To think no one is supprised by the shcoking poverty in the UK

202 replies

Itsgonnabeacoldone · 04/12/2017 08:35

People act like it's a shock or something not expected. But you would have to be seriously out of touch to be surprised by this

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/04/uk-government-warned-over-sharp-rise-children-pensioner-poverty-study

OP posts:
wasonthelist · 04/12/2017 11:31

Companies like Amazon pay little tax because they make little profit,

Bollocks. They pay little tax by shifting the profits around in what a child can see is a cynical money-grabbing series of made-up transactions, which dodge taxes in any Country with a regime wanky enough to permit it.

Cabamba · 04/12/2017 11:32

I was born into poverty the son of two people themselves from huge families, who had a very large family of their own. Poverty for me was of a different order to today's ideas. Furthermore, the message to me and my siblings was to get out into the world and compete. We did just that, and politics never entered into our young lives - we found our own.
There will always be those who fall to the bottom of the pile, sometimes because of poor abilities, or lack of motivation or bad luck, but a devil of a lot from a lack of planning in their lives.
No government will eradicate relative poverty (because poverty today is way better than that I knew) but only when people have done their best, planned their lives well but encountered bad luck, do I have any truck with their complaints, and in my experience, government blaming is simply the refuge of the politically blind, imho.

JonSnowsWife · 04/12/2017 11:34

You've already said that cabamba Confused

SusannahL · 04/12/2017 11:36

Oh dear, here we go again. Another 'it's all the Tories fault' thread.

Look, the facts are that the majority of the homeless are immigrants who have come here, illegally in many cases, for our benefit system, free health care, free schooling for their children etc etc.

Some of the homeless are in that situation because of how they have chosen to live, ie alcoholism, drug addiction.
Neither of those are illnesses by the way, they are lifestyle choices.

If you take those cases out of the equation you are left with very few genuine homeless.

But hey, let's ignore all that and blame the Tories instead!

PoisonousSmurf · 04/12/2017 11:36

Wait until the robot revolution starts! Then we'll ALL be on the scrapheap. If that doesn't make people revolt, I don't know what will...

Gilead · 04/12/2017 11:38

You really thing a self confessed Marxist like McDonnell will stop at water, gas and trains?? Would laugh my arse off when mumsnet is nationalised.
erm, you do realise it's not 1965 don't you?

government blaming is simply the refuge of the politically blind, imho.
A lazy way of supporting a government that is othering those in receipt of welfare, demonising disabled people and those who are for whatever reason unable to work. In fact your statement shows a breathtaking lack of insight into politics and clearly demonstrates just how politically blind you have chosen to be.

Justanotherlurker · 04/12/2017 11:40

Bollocks. They pay little tax by shifting the profits around in what a child can see is a cynical money-grabbing series of made-up transactions, which dodge taxes in any Country with a regime wanky enough to permit it.

Unfortunately an issue with globalisation, any serious attempt to properly address this is the prickly issue Corbyn economics is not the answer, and neither is the current Tory way..

makeourfuture · 04/12/2017 11:40

Another 'it's all the Tories fault' thread

Well when you see a pattern....

Thing is, the failed policies behind it all have choked the economy. Did you read the budget?

People suffer for no good reason at all.

Gilead · 04/12/2017 11:41

Some of the homeless are in that situation because of how they have chosen to live, ie alcoholism, drug addiction.
Neither of those are illnesses by the way, they are lifestyle choices.
Good grief, are you serious?
It is not a lifestyle choice to become an addict in any way whatsoever. What an appalling attitude. You are severely lacking in empathy if you cannot see how some people got to the places they are in. It's people like you who fuel this contempt toward those on welfare. How awful.

Finola1step · 04/12/2017 11:44

My DH and I are involved in our local food bank. This year, the biggest increase in the food bank referrals have involved pensioners. Retired people who have grafted all their lives in lower paid jobs and have not been able to pay into a pension scheme. So now rely on the state pension. Which isn't able to keep up with the rise in food prices and fuel costs.

People who have worked hard and can't afford to get by in their retirement. And have no way of increasing their income. People who do not ask for help until they are absolutely desperate. It is truly, truly heartbreaking.

wasonthelist · 04/12/2017 11:46

Look, the facts are that the majority of the homeless are immigrants who have come here, illegally in many cases, for our benefit system, free health care, free schooling for their children etc etc.

These are only "facts" in a weird Daily Heil universe where whatever some bloke says in a pub is true.

JonSnowsWife · 04/12/2017 11:47

Oh dear, here we go again. Another 'it's all the Tories fault' thread.

That's because it IS their fault. Hmm

Look, the facts are that the majority of the homeless are immigrants who have come here, illegally in many cases, for our benefit system, free health care, free schooling for their children etc etc.

They're not facts. Illegal immigrants have no recourse to public funding so no housing benefit / child tax credits / nice council houses so that point is bollocks too, unsuprisingly.

Some of the homeless are in that situation because of how they have chosen to live, ie alcoholism, drug addiction.

Nobody chooses to live on the streets. Do you include ex soldiers who are on the streets in the same category?

Neither of those are illnesses by the way, they are lifestyle choices

So was Austerity, what's your point? And you're wrong anyway, unsurprisingly, both are illnesses, whether you like it or not. They are classed as such so tough cookies.

If you take those cases out of the equation you are left with very few genuine homeless.

They're not very few. Theres plenty. Due to benefit cuts, rising rents, zero hour contracts, no strict regulations which means rogue LLs can kick out at a moments notice as long as they've served a S21 (if my memory serves me right).

But hey, let's ignore all that and blame the Tories instead!

I'll happily blame the Tories for situations resulting from their own policies thankyou. Just like the Tories were happy to blame Labour for their mess. Just the Tories are leaving a bigger mess. Who'd have thunk it?

Gilead · 04/12/2017 11:52

Hey Susannah how can you claim benefits if you're an illegal immigrant...

Whizziwig · 04/12/2017 11:57

I'm also really fed up with the rise of what would have been seen as extremely right wing views five years ago trotted out as though they are vaguely right-of centre.

Agree with this. There has been a very successful shift by the Conservatives and the right-wing media, totally normalising hard-right policies. At first it was done in the name of "austerity", which of course we were all in together (unless you were rich, in which case you were allowed to get even richer). I'm not sure we can can carry on with that rhetoric now that other countries that aren't following austerity politics have much better economic growth than us.

I actually looked at the 2015 manifesto for UKIP in reference to another MN thread a few months ago (not that I would vote for them) and was surprised to notice that many of their policies were considerably to the left of the current Conservative government.

The demonising of the poor/vulnerable has got completely out of hand in recent years. You can hardly turn on the TV without seeing some programme about "benefit scroungers". Add to that reports like those in yesterday's papers about terminally ill people are being subjected to "back-to-work counselling" and you can really see how little empathy the government has for the poor and sick. And we can see from posts on here, from those implying it's your own fault if you're poor, how many seem to agree with them.

Justanotherlurker · 04/12/2017 11:59

totally normalising hard-right policies.

Which hard right policies are being normalised?

Therealjudgejudy · 04/12/2017 12:03

Susannah, what a completely ignorant thing to say. Addictions and alcoholism are not illnesses because you say so?

Time to educate yourself and have some empathy.

Whizziwig · 04/12/2017 12:09

I call expecting the terminally I'll to attend work counselling fairly hard-right!

MohoBoho · 04/12/2017 12:10

If you're here as "an illegal immigrant" you won't get any benefits - this is the Katy Hopkins of this world spouting just plain incorrect and racist rubbish.

JonSnowsWife · 04/12/2017 12:12

whizziwig it doesn't suprise me. Ambulances have had to take people with spinal tumours to their PIP appeals at court but yeah, poor mean lefties holding this inept and cruel government to account. How very dare they eh?

JingsMahBucket · 04/12/2017 12:16

This is just a small slice of the issue but, as a person who's not originally from the UK, I am constantly shocked at the low level of wages in the country. People who are middle management and working for 20 years who are still on only £40,000/year is completely absurd. The slave wages that teenagers make simply because they're under a certain age. Two adults working and making a joint household income of only £45,000 are considered "doing so well" here on MN when that would be poverty wages in any other country.

The paradoxical thing to me is how people ever afford to actually buy property in the UK on these insanely low wages either.

I wonder what it would take to raise the wages in the UK? That's a genuine question I think about from time to time.

Walnutwhiplash · 04/12/2017 12:17

Corbyn-is-God
O dear, clearly you don't read the Guardian. You should re-engage your finger with the pulse of the political zeitgeist and update your clichés.

wasonthelist · 04/12/2017 12:18

I'm also really fed up with the rise of what would have been seen as extremely right wing views five years ago trotted out as though they are vaguely right-of centre.
So am I, that's why I hate all this bollocks "we need a candidate/party of the centre" It's all just Tory-lite shite.

ReggaetonLente · 04/12/2017 12:18

All you grasping, envious cunts will soon know real poverty

Nice

Bombardier25966 · 04/12/2017 12:22

Hey Susannah how can you claim benefits if you're an illegal immigrant...

"The Daily Mail says it's true so it must be!"

I read comments from people like SusannahL and laugh out loud, they're so ignorant they must be joking. But then I remember that we're talking about real people that are massively struggling, more often than not through no fault of your their own. What a sad, bitter world we have become when some will pour scorn on those in difficulty.

I expect anyone that sees alcoholism as self inflicted has never had a drink in their lives, as that's how alcoholism starts. No one sets out for it to be a problem, it starts with the odd drink that becomes a few and gradually develops into a reliance. It's usually accompanied by other mental health issues and poor life circumstances, and sod all support to help pull you back from the downward spiral.

But as long as you're alright eh SusannahL?

Oswin · 04/12/2017 12:22

Since when is it normal to call people cunts for caring about people in poverty Confused.