To think no one is supprised by the shcoking poverty in the UK

[Itsgonnabeacoldone]

People act like it's a shock or something not expected. But you would have to be seriously out of touch to be surprised by this

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/04/uk-government-warned-over-sharp-rise-children-pensioner-poverty-study

[Firesuit]

Corporation tax does need to be reformed. The solution is that rules need to be changed so very large multinational companies are taxed where they get their revenue, this means they will pay tax to many different countries simultaneously. It will mean virtually no profits will be taxed in tax havens.

This would be a huge change as effectively all rich countries would have to agree to it simultaneously, and all their tax treaties with each other would have to be rewritten.

Apparently Trump has a corporation tax reform policy that won't achieve his objective, as the problem he wants to solve is imaginary, but as a side effect it would require a reform like above to Corporation tax, so it would be good if he managed to implement his reform. (I know that sounds weird, just repeating something I read in Financial Times a while ago.)

[makeourfuture]

It is Social Darwinism isn't it?

[shhhfastasleep]

My relative is a teacher in an "underachieving " area with lots of poverty and/or dysfunctional behaviour in families. They tell their students that this is their one chance to achieve things the "easy" way. And no, it isn't that easy they tell the students. But it gets much harder for you if you don't put a good shift in at school and grind out some results.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

Many if not most of us could afford a little bit more

I'm sure we could - and I don't doubt that many would be happier to do so, except that they'd just be throwing money down a black hole with the way things are structured at the moment

Let's not forget that just 1% of the very richest already pay nearly 30% of all tax, roughly 15% pay another 30% and the 81% paying the basic tax rate contribute just 33% of revenues (source: HMRC data as reported here www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/jan/27/how-many-pay-top-rate-of-income-tax-uk)

Just how much more do folk expect the highly paid to contribute before the golden goose waddles off?

[makeourfuture]

By the way, the Tories have taken the country to the wall, fiscally, more often since the war than the Labour Party have.

Exactly.

[karriecreamer]

It's a bigger picture than behaving through choice in school.

It's also a bigger picture than just giving parents more money too!

[Gilead]

Karrie Unfortunately teens cannot be expected to regulate themselves, they're not adults. So yes, whilst working in school is going to help, enabling said teens to make those choices also needs to happen. However, if you come from poverty and you're off out to play footie to keep warm, scrounge some chips, get away from the damp, the shouting or whatever, then your life chances are lessened. It's a bigger picture than behaving through choice in school.

[Gilead]

It made more economic sense to take benefits than to work. That sort of damage has ruined a whole generation of people.
Think you'll find that was one of Thatcher's policies.
Your railing against Corbyn is childish, as it is against other Labour leaders. Provide evidence or some sort of coherent back ups against your assertions.
By the way, the Tories have taken the country to the wall, fiscally, more often since the war than the Labour Party have.

[MissMustBeAMug]

karriecreamer again true, but it’s a bit disingenuous to say that that is true of most children who aren’t bright.

If you are not ‘that bright’ but have educated parents pushing you on, telling you what to achieve, able to read and help you with homework, go to school with a full belly and come home to a warm happy house, you are probably going to do ok.

If you are not ‘that bright’ and have parents who are hostile to education (and it’s not that hard to see why they would be), go to school hungry, live in damp conditions making your health more likely to suffer, then how likely will you be to ‘just knuckle down’ and succeed then?

There are always some who will manage it, but they are very much the exception. Most small children don’t have the fortitude to overcome their unsafe living conditions, expectations that they will be a ‘waster’, poor education, not much academic potential and their peers.

[Shard1662]

My friend's DD, privately educated with RG degree and living with BF, with a 1st class engineering degree, both aged 25, don't want to get jobs, as they are not like other people. They don't want to be wage slaves or mortgage monkeys, they say.
They Live simply, but funded by benefits. For them it is a lifestyle choice and they are intelligent enough to work the system. Sadly, it is those in need who can't and who suffer.

I don't know what the answer is, but I don't think it's just a question of throwing money at the problem.

[shhhfastasleep]

Agree with you Karrie.

[karriecreamer]

If they aren’t blessed with a lot of intelligence

You don't need a lot of intelligence to get a half decent set of qualifications. Mid-grades in GCSE, and NVQs are achievable for most if they actually listen and do the work at school/college. (Yes, I fully appreciate those with disabilities and special needs are different!). The problem for many is lack of willingness to put the work in, i.e. play footie every evening/weekend instead of homework, watching Youtube videos instead of revising for tests, etc. Basic qualifications aren't rocket science and are well within the grasp of the majority.

[JacquesHammer]

Kildora, intelligence and hard work are not connected.

Which isn't what Kildare said. But there is a marked correlation between intelligence/education opportunities and high paid employment.

[karriecreamer]

I wonder how many years people will be able to get away with blaming Blair and co for the absolute shambles caused by the present Government bluebells

Probably a similar amount of time that Blair/Brown spent blaming the Conservatives. Funny thing was that things were going well for the first term of the Blair/Brown government as they basically didn't change much. It was the second and third terms when they made loads of changes that things escalated out of control, with rising debt, rising taxes, etc., which didn't produce the PS service improvements and economic growth they expected. (Hence Brown constantly extending his "economic cycle" every year). And don't mention that they stopped "boom and bust"!!

[BadLad]

I wonder how many years people will be able to get away with blaming Blair and co for the absolute shambles caused by the present Government bluebells

I suspect quite a long time. The party in power always do that. Take the credit themselves for anything good, and blame the last leader of the other side (of any note) who held power for any problems. See Thatcher still be blamed all the time New Labour were in power.

[MissMustBeAMug]

bluebells1 correct, intelligence and hard work are not connnected.

But I think you’ll find intelligence and being paid well for that hard work very much are.

If you have no qualifications at all, failed all of your exams, and work 24 hour shifts as a carer, that is still hard work is it not? Doesn’t pay though, ignorant arses will still look down on you, and you will still be trapped in that damp house.

And if you dare complain about your situation, you will be told to ‘retrain’ or ‘try harder’.

Compare that to the hard work of someone who got high exam results and went to university. Their work will pay better and they certainly not receive the derision the minimum wage workers do.

Once it is difficult to live on benefits, you can be assured of people having fewer children, getting back to work and generally prospering

What a lovely fantasy you must live in. All you can be assured of in that case is people getting poorer. In third world countries poverty certainly stops people having children doesn’t it?

No, all you would assured of is starving children, even less likely to pull themselves out of poverty than before.

Like how currently we are making disability benefits much harder to get, and genuine people with serious disabilities and terminal illnesses are dying, right now, this very minute.

[TheSultanofPingu]

I wonder how many years people will be able to get away with blaming Blair and co for the absolute shambles caused by the present Government bluebells

[bluebells1]

Kildora, intelligence and hard work are not connected. Previous Labour governemnts made it easier for people to not work and scrounge. It made more economic sense to take benefits than to work. That sort of damage has ruined a whole generation of people. Once it is difficult to live on benefits, you can be assured of people having fewer children, getting back to work and generally prospering. But the left always believes in being enablers of poverty because that is most of their vote bank.

[Tippz]

'You PUT it so much better' I mean!

[Creambun2]

bluebells you make rees-mog

[Tippz]

Excellent post @Killdora

Pretty much what I meant, but you out it so much better!

[Tippz]

Not surprised at ALL. And it's been like this for 10 years.

Some people (politicians, and people who are privileged) like to deny it though, and leave the poor to rot. And anyone who is not well educated will never be on anything but minimum pay, because society doesn't give anyone a chance to prove themselves.

Unless you are born into reasonable wealth, you are fucked.

[Killdora]

I grew up on a poor housing estate. It makes me furious when ignorant twats look down on people who have absolutely no realistic chance of getting out of poverty.

Yes, I’m even talking about those families who are generations of ‘benefit scroungers’.

What exactly are they supposed to do?

If they aren’t blessed with a lot of intelligence (people always seem to forget that not everyone is, it shouldn’t be looked down on) how exactly do they get themselves out of poverty? The most they can do is get a minimum wage job.

But then, they will still be in poverty, in fact worse off in some cases because they won’t be paid enough to live on. They can’t just ‘retrain’ or work their way up.

They will be slogging their guts out, day in, day out, for a pittance of money and will still receive derision and contempt for their situation.

And even if they do have intelligence, they won’t fare much better. Poorer areas tend to have poorer schools, the children there won’t be pushed towards university or anything aspirational.

They will be facing a family at home that has learned through generations that they are worthless to the majority of society, and who have developed a reverse kind of snobbery to protect their egos from this. So they are hostile to education, university, aspirations above their station.

[bluebells1]

Anyone who thinks Corbyn will fix this country needs their head examined. He is a bloody communist and will destroy this country. Wonder how many years it will take to fix the mess that Blair and co made. Labour leaders are absolute shite.

[Creambun2]

Anyone who votes tory should hang their heads in shame.