To think that trans athletes have no place in women's sports?

[cdvegan2023]

I don't think most people realise how huge athletic differences between men and women are, maybe because human sexual dimorphism doesn't appear that significant on first glance?

Not too long ago John McEnroe caused quite a stir by stating that Serena would only be around the 700 spot in men's rankings. He was called sexist, a caveman, pig etc. If anything, he was being generous and PC (as much as Mac can be, anyway). Andy Murray also stated years ago that "I would be surprised if they were inside 1000" . People don't seem to understand that the 1000 guy is still a very good player and that men's tennis is not only far more physical but also more technically complex.

www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/822372/Andy-Murray-John-McEnroe-2010-best-women-top-1000-men-Serena-Williams

In football the best women's teams lose to local 13-14 yo boys all the time. The world cup winning USA team was demolished by a Dallas boys team , 2-5. The national aussie team lost 0-7 to a random boys team of similar ages. There are countless examples like that. And these boys are no world beaters either, many of them won't even sign a pro contract in their life, never mind start for Real Madrid. If no name barely teenage boys can outplay a top adult women's team without breaking a sweat , imagine how the women would fare against grown ass men. Checking wiki I could not find a single sport where senior women had better records than junior boys. Women's olympic results are often lower than men's who do it as a hobby at their local club. And don't even get me started on violent sports.... Aibu that this is insanity?

www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/

www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/australian-womens-national-team-lose-70-to-team-of-15yearold-boys-a3257266.html

I have a family member who has transitioned m-->f.
They have always been very narcissistic and have addiction and mental health issues. They are also diagnosed HF autistic and have been very quick to join the latest fringe "thing". I despair that this is just the latest. What's more they can no longer get help for their MH issues as no counsellor will touch them for fear of being accused of conversion therapy. And as a result their mental health has spiralled and the suicide threats are becoming worse.
They have no gender dysphoria, never have. Its all about the clothes/feelz.

What lance said

Did you mean biscuits

Cos ive been on here for ages and ive no idea what a donut it

Did we ever get an answer about living as a woman?

Obviously men shouldn't compete in women's sports. Taking "female" hormones does not make you a woman.

As to the OP's question about athletic differences, I think it varies. In sports where strength and speed are important, men have a huge advantage. In endurance events (e.g. marathon running, long-distance swimming), the advantage is smaller, though still significant.

No you (purposefully?) misunderstood me.
Their mental health is SUFFERING because transitioning now is all about the clothes and feelz and not gender dysphoria, like it used to be when it was just transsexuals who transitioned. Everyone should be free to wear and be whatever the fuck they want. But they don't magically become a woman just because they "feel" like one.

"But they don't magically become a woman just because they "feel" like one."

Why not?

zipTies
"But they don't magically become a woman just because they "feel" like one."
Why not?

Are you saying I magically become an electricity pylon because I "feel" like one then zipTies?

Do you still believe in fairies? Maybe if I dress up in 3yos costume and feel like a fairy I will be able to fly?

*"But they don't magically become a woman just because they "feel" like one."

Why not?*

Because woman actually means something, an adult female, and you can't just magically become one by putting on a dress or getting plastic surgery.

Don't answer questions with questions. It makes people sound like dicks.

at identifying as a pylon

But you are right.

Then don't ask stupid questions lol. I could feel like a cat it wouldn't make me feline. I could feel old but it wouldn't change my age.

Because a woman is an adult female of the sex that produces eggs and experiences pregnancies, regardless of whether an individual member of that sex does they still are of the sex that does. Ffs didn't you do GCSE science? Its actually covered in yr7 science so maybe you need to go back to refresh your biology?

After all, men are also at anything from chess to darts to snooker to scrabble to tetris or solving the friggin' Rubik cube.

Whoop, whoop! Well done with all that important stuff. Meanwhile women continue the human race by having the babies.

zipTies
"But they don't magically become a woman just because they "feel" like one."
Why not?

A: Because a human with XX chromosomes is a woman, and a human with XY chromosomes is a man. And no amount of surgery or makeup makes the XY chromosone human into an XX chromosome human. Because over-the-top imitations of female mannerisms, dressing up like a hooker, calling yourself Tallulah and saying how hard it is to be a woman, does not make one a woman.

Are you saying I magically become an electricity pylon because I "feel" like one then zipTies?

Whoop, whoop! Well done with all that important stuff. Meanwhile women continue the human race by having the babies

Well yeah, hopefully by only choosing the best males, like any decent species out there. At least that's what the nature shows keeping telling me. Or has David Attenborough lied to me all this time?

Once again it is so hard for women to stand up for themselves in this scenario - if female competitors vote with their feet and withdraw their entries for certain events as a protest, they risk losing all the sponsorship and media coverage and credibility they have fought so hard to gain. To uphold their rights would likely cost them very dearly.

Yet men benefit from an exception to the gender laws by a restriction on woman transitioning to become men and claiming titles and inheritance based on the fact that it is deemed 'unfair' for the biological son (a man) to 'be deprived of his reasonable expectation to inherit'. (am trying to find the exact source for provenance). Deemed even more acceptable because it only applies in a few rare circumstances.

By this exact same argument, a biological woman who places second to a transwoman in sport would have the reasonable expectation of placing first (and gaining the money and recognition that comes with that) but has been denied that reasonable expectation by the ) inclusion on a transwoman of the opposite biological sex. AND this argument is further strengthened by the fact that is not a rare exception but increasingly very common that biological women's reasonable expectations are being denied.

Yet are these arguments reflected properly on law and on practice? No.

It is these facts show us which is the oppressed/ discriminated against group. It is biological women who do not have the power to be heard or to take action without loss and being called "those difficult women".

Transwomen and trans people have rights, but no the right to detract from women's struggle for equality and to be heard.

typos - in law and in practice obviously

Why not?

Because we don't live in a magical fantasy land where facts are changed based on the whims of an individual.

why not?

Because biology?

Interesting article in the guardian today about participation in sport among girls - what prevents it, what causes it to tail off. If it's already an issue now, I can only see that decline worsening if (particularly teenage) girls are expected to share changing rooms with biological (intact) males, who also manage to dominate many of the sports they play anyway.

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/nov/28/by-secondary-its-too-late-readers-on-promoting-girls-school-sports

And yes, I believe in biology so a man cannot become a woman, or a male a female, no matter how bad he feels about his identity.

but in my posts re "the usurping of reasonable expectations", I wanted to point out the interesting fact that no matter what the situation, for some reason (?!?!?) it is always men who manage to get exceptions and protections in their favour, NOT women.

Ffs where will this shit end?

Transwomen are men.
Men do not belong in women’s sport.
Not that complicated is it? 🙄

What does feeling like a woman even feel like zipTies? How do these men know they "feel" like a woman rather than just not fitting in to male gender stereotypes?

And I "feel" young but it doesn't change the fact I'm not, and no amount of foot stomping and screaming that "I'm young!" is going to change that.

Are you saying I magically become an electricity pylon because I "feel" like one thenzipTies?

More seriously now, the question of "what does feeling like a woman mean?" has been asked on many threads and I have yet to read anything resembling a satisfactory answer.