To think that trans athletes have no place in women's sports?

[cdvegan2023]

I don't think most people realise how huge athletic differences between men and women are, maybe because human sexual dimorphism doesn't appear that significant on first glance?

Not too long ago John McEnroe caused quite a stir by stating that Serena would only be around the 700 spot in men's rankings. He was called sexist, a caveman, pig etc. If anything, he was being generous and PC (as much as Mac can be, anyway). Andy Murray also stated years ago that "I would be surprised if they were inside 1000" . People don't seem to understand that the 1000 guy is still a very good player and that men's tennis is not only far more physical but also more technically complex.

www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/822372/Andy-Murray-John-McEnroe-2010-best-women-top-1000-men-Serena-Williams

In football the best women's teams lose to local 13-14 yo boys all the time. The world cup winning USA team was demolished by a Dallas boys team , 2-5. The national aussie team lost 0-7 to a random boys team of similar ages. There are countless examples like that. And these boys are no world beaters either, many of them won't even sign a pro contract in their life, never mind start for Real Madrid. If no name barely teenage boys can outplay a top adult women's team without breaking a sweat , imagine how the women would fare against grown ass men. Checking wiki I could not find a single sport where senior women had better records than junior boys. Women's olympic results are often lower than men's who do it as a hobby at their local club. And don't even get me started on violent sports.... Aibu that this is insanity?

www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/

www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/australian-womens-national-team-lose-70-to-team-of-15yearold-boys-a3257266.html

[Redisthemagicolour]

I agree with you OP

[QuackPorridgeBacon]

I agree it shocks me that this is allowed. How and why is a person of male stature able to compete against women? It just makes no sense and I will never understand why it is allowed. Lazy men that don’t want to put the work in to get gold so they have to take it from women.

[StoatofDisarray]

YADNBU.

[cdvegan2023]

OMG, why are people still mentioning horse competitions? What next , dog shows?

And while women do seem to be closer to men in ultra-competitions, all the top records are still held by men.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarathon#IAU_World_Best_Performances

[HumphreyCobblers]

It is cheating. Not competing.

Baffles me how anyone can see it as acceptable in any way.

[KatherinaMinola]

Another thing i've also found fascinated is how men ''think'' sports. What I mean is watch a top men's vs top women's game and you'll see something more than just physical. After all, Messi and Maradona are more or less average female height. This video is a pretty good description of what I'm trying to say, the boys are barely trying or using their height or weight and they are still 3 moves ahead.

Mm, yeah . I'm not sure what your agenda is here - you seem determined to do down women's sport under the guise of "protecting" it.

Regarding your headline though, YANBU to think that trans athletes have no place in women's sport.

[Barbaro]

You mean a sport that's skill based and the physicality in question is that of the horse...

Skill is required yes, as is mental and physical strength to a high degree. It's not merely sitting there as people think, sitting on a hacking pony and attempting to control a horse full of adrenaline with an enormous amount of power are two very different things. Even amateur riders would and do struggle with horses of the calibre that professionals ride, I know I own one. The amount of strength it takes just to stay on the damn thing is unbelievable.

[JacquesHammer]

@barbaro

I'm not quibbling that. But the height of the rider for example wouldn't make as much of a difference as in a sport where there isn't another living beast in the equation!

[Gileswithachainsaw]

Yanbu

I mean they segregate within men's and women's sports anyway don't they?

U21s play U21s in foot ball

There are different weight categories for some sports

If they can understand all that in the interests of fairness and appreciating the implications of not competing against people where it would be reasonably evenly matched then surely it could he understood that men should compete against men and women against biological women

There are differences with development from conception that no medication can undo

[AlpacaLypse]

yanbu. As pps have mentioned the only sports where there can ever be a level playing field are those where skill is the only thing that matters.

[rightsaidfrederickII]

YAWN

[undefeatable]

I am an olympian and in a sport which was traditionally non-sex based.

I think that simply hormone tests seem the simplest way to go.

I suspect that feminists will be up in arms about men/women like Caster Semenya. There's a definite 'sticking together' as opposed to simply fairness that comes out of these arguments.

As a woman who has competed at the olympics as well as doing well professionally, I think it's amusing how many women clamour to show how men have every physical advantage except for brain power and in this women must be equal as any shown difference is purely down to socialisation. Fascinating!

[CosmicCanary]

YANBU.

[AlpacaLypse]

And even then I'm still waiting for a female driver to actually start an F1 race. Although to be fair that sport is so totally misogynistic that even the most talented female drivers are going to have to use a sledgehammer to ever get a fair shot at a drive.

[TakemedowntoPotatoCity]

I've never understood why women don't play snooker alongside men

[SlowlyShrinking]

Google Lana Lawless, Fallon Fox, Michelle Dumaresq and Laurel Hubbard. All TIMs and all strangely successful in competing against women in sport. All late transitioners with the benefits of having gone through male puberty. Cheats, imo.

[HumphreyCobblers]

intersex people are not the same as transgender people, it is a different issue entirely.

those who ARE intersex have asked that the trans rights activists leave them out of it.

[mummymeister]

The issue is not the unfairness of it. the issue is what can be done about it now. so many sports are changing the rules to make it testosterone level based.

its cheating - pure and simple. someone has an advantage over another competitor.

and anyone that doesn't see how far this is going to go needs to watch out. there are certain countries across the world encouraging men to become trans so that they can compete and win gold medals in womens sport.

not only are women treated like second class citizens they have been demoted to third class citizens in sport behind transpeople.

[TalkinBoutWhat]

YANBU!!!!

[agedknees]

Yanbu. They are just cheats, plain and simple.

[JamPasty]

YANBU

[BamburyFuriou3]

Undefeatable - "equal" is not the same as "exactly the same". Women are (or should be) equal to men, but there are undeniable physical differences! Hence why sports should be sex based.
However, having a female body does not prevent women from being just as good (or better) as men in mental tasks, professions, and jobs.
The brain is plastic however, and socialisation does result in physical differences

[CurbsideProphet]

YANBU, however, if a person has been socialised male as a child then as an adult they will assume that they can still do as they please. This is why so many biological males are insistent that they should be able to impinge on the rights of women.

[cdvegan2023]

Mm, yeah hmm. I'm not sure what your agenda is here - you seem determined to do down women's sport under the guise of "protecting" it.

I'm not protecting anyone, I'm just saying men and women are very different and competing against each other would be unfair. You know what would make for an interesting discussion : should men transwomen be allowed into women's competitions in non-physical ''sports''? Chess, scrabble, bridge (none of the top 50 players in the world are women even though the latter 2 have a female majority of competitors) or darts and pool where men also fare far better than women even though they shouldn't in theory?

[araiwa]

the comment at the end is great!

it has to be more than strength and size though... darts, pool, snooker, chess dont rely on them but where are the women competing at the top

my understanding is f1 does take a lot of physical strength