To think that trans athletes have no place in women's sports?

[cdvegan2023]

I don't think most people realise how huge athletic differences between men and women are, maybe because human sexual dimorphism doesn't appear that significant on first glance?

Not too long ago John McEnroe caused quite a stir by stating that Serena would only be around the 700 spot in men's rankings. He was called sexist, a caveman, pig etc. If anything, he was being generous and PC (as much as Mac can be, anyway). Andy Murray also stated years ago that "I would be surprised if they were inside 1000" . People don't seem to understand that the 1000 guy is still a very good player and that men's tennis is not only far more physical but also more technically complex.

www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/822372/Andy-Murray-John-McEnroe-2010-best-women-top-1000-men-Serena-Williams

In football the best women's teams lose to local 13-14 yo boys all the time. The world cup winning USA team was demolished by a Dallas boys team , 2-5. The national aussie team lost 0-7 to a random boys team of similar ages. There are countless examples like that. And these boys are no world beaters either, many of them won't even sign a pro contract in their life, never mind start for Real Madrid. If no name barely teenage boys can outplay a top adult women's team without breaking a sweat , imagine how the women would fare against grown ass men. Checking wiki I could not find a single sport where senior women had better records than junior boys. Women's olympic results are often lower than men's who do it as a hobby at their local club. And don't even get me started on violent sports.... Aibu that this is insanity?

www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/

www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/australian-womens-national-team-lose-70-to-team-of-15yearold-boys-a3257266.html

where is the media support and trendy hashtagging of those women's experience? Read the papers! it's all over the news! Are you mad? #metoo Domestic violence support Harvey Weinstein Don Burke
For real? It's bigger now than it's ever been

IF THEY HAVE TRANSITIONED THEY ARE NOW WOMEN

Humans cannot change sex.

Woman is adult human female.

They are not women and never will be.

80% of transwomen keep their penis.

You going to tell me its a female penis are you?

Trans people are not a risk. You should meet some, you would see for yourselves.

Trans people are not a risk. You should meet some, you would see for yourselves

They are when it comes down to males playing female in contact sport.

Oh so men ARE smarter than us, and better at the thinking. Maybe womens sports have difficulty competing cause they are socialised from birth to not play them? And then there is no fucking money anyway?

Not smarter (that's a completely different can of worms), but have better ability in coordinating their actions or reacting faster or simply thinking everything several moves ahead. After all, men are also at anything from chess to darts to snooker to scrabble to tetris or solving the friggin' Rubik cube.

Since you mentioned money : tennis is a sport where both genders make zillions so have the best training and conditions. Now go watch a Rafa-Fed match then Serena - Halep and tell me the only difference is strength and speed. It's not only like watching the male version in slow motion, but the technique and strategies are far less impressive. After all, Serena made hundreds of millions of dollars and became the best female player ever by smashing 120lbs russian girls into oblivion. But as she said on the Letterman show:

"Men's tennis and women's tennis are almost two separate sports. If I was to play Andy Murray I would lose 6-0, 6-0 in five to six minutes, maybe 10 minutes. I only want to play girls, because I don't want to be embarrassed."

I like her, very honest girl, especially in today's world where the ''girl powah!'' BS never seems to take a fucking break.

Trans people are not a risk. You should meet some, you would see for yourselves.

I have met a few one who was at risk from a bunch of transwomen trying go intimidate them in to silence.

What are they at risk of exactly?

Why are they not a risk exactly?

Is what thst should say.

but liminality there is making space and then there is handing over the prime spots like sporting championships and world records and prize money. Sport makes an excellent example of how the current transwomens rights are not about equality or fairness.

Also, what do you make of the case of primogentiure - where an elder sister who wants to be a man cannot inherit a title or estate over her younger brother.

Do you believe that should be allowed? And then ask yourself why this has been consistently prohibited and by whom.

Thank god this was posted!

None of us who use AIBU for a little light relief had any idea!

Genuine transwomen are probably not likely to be a risk to women, but how do we tell the difference between genuine tw, and men who are exploiting the new legislation if/when it is passed in order to gain access to women in vulnerable states (changing rooms/rape crisis centres/refugees etc)
It would be great if liminality could explain how to tell these groups apart, and also how we keep men with bad intentions out of our spaces if self-determination is enshrined in law?

*Humans cannot change sex.

Woman is adult human female.

They are not women and never will be.

80% of transwomen keep their penis.

You going to tell me its a female penis are you?*

^Yes to this post.

you ought to be ashamed
Women should not be ashamed for protecting their sports and other sex segregated areas. We have them all for a reason and some of them have been hard fought for. Women should not have to make way or make space in them to appease men.

And I don’t doubt that being a tw/tim is difficult, but I also don’t see why that entitles them to play rugby with women?

and what has been the backlash to the #metoo hashtag? Men accusing women of exaggerating and jumping on the bandwagon.

And an immediate upsurge in transwomen's campaigning and TopShop deciding to make a their changing rooms gender neutral purely on the basis of the complaint of ONE man who says he feels like a woman.

If women's experiences of society-wide systematic and pervasive sexual harassment really were being taken seriously, NO ONE would be entertaining the idea of mixed sex changing rooms at this time.

With regards, to sports - you have a mildly complicated issue. That could be easily resolved if people weren't so hotheaded and using outdated socialisations.

How exactly could it be easily resolved? Obviously by refusing to let men compete against women, but I doubt that's what you have in mind.

"Can you think of any other reasons why someone in the (substantially) weaker half of the population might not have learnt to think of physical violence as an effective reaction to frustration?"

But there are noticeable difference in aggressive in children well before adolescence. Boys aren't physically stronger than girls (well, other than by an extremely tiny margin) at that age but they are still more aggressive.

Just for accuracy (as I agree you are NBU, OP), there have been female F1 drivers.

Five of them.
Ever.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_Formula_One_drivers

There should be a separate Trans-catagory for sports trans women shouldn't be included in women's sports as there is a physical difference in strength.

I just asked my personal trainer (who is a semi pro athlete and has a biology degree) whether he believed lowering a transwoman's testosterone levels equals the playing field and he literally snorted - he says male biological advantages are far, far greater than just increased testosterone leading to increased strength, and it's ludicrous to pretend otherwise. I agree.

YANBU, it's ludicrous. You can change your 'gender' if you like. But you cannot change or undo your biological sex and the physical traits that come with it.

Liminality, did you mean to issue biscuits, maybe, rather than donuts (or even doughnuts)?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again (and I'll probably keep on saying it) - if self-identifying as an electricity pylon would get me laughed out of any room, then so should a man self-identifying as a woman.

My son plays football and used to play against a girls team. This team was academy affiliated and properly coached. Technically they outskilled the other teams and up to the u13 age group were the team to beat. Then the boys caught up and became physically stronger and faster and started to outplay the girls team. Their technical skills just weren't enough and they moved to one of the few girls leagues. It was obvious to see what difference biology made.

I think not one of you has a friend who has transitioned and has no idea the painful reality of that life choice. IF THEY HAVE TRANSITIONED THEY ARE NOW WOMEN. and vice versa

I have a friend who has transitioned from M-F. I respect him because he prefers if people call him "she" rather than demands it. He doesn't kid himself that he's a woman, and isn't so arrogant to think that by changing his name and having surgery to create what looks like female genitalia he has any idea what it's like to be a woman. His experiences have been as a man and as a man wanting to be more like a woman (whatever that's supposed to be), but never as an actual woman. Out of politelness I refer to him in female terms when I'm with him, but he will always be a rather unusual and confused man to me.