To think that trans athletes have no place in women's sports?

[cdvegan2023]

I don't think most people realise how huge athletic differences between men and women are, maybe because human sexual dimorphism doesn't appear that significant on first glance?

Not too long ago John McEnroe caused quite a stir by stating that Serena would only be around the 700 spot in men's rankings. He was called sexist, a caveman, pig etc. If anything, he was being generous and PC (as much as Mac can be, anyway). Andy Murray also stated years ago that "I would be surprised if they were inside 1000" . People don't seem to understand that the 1000 guy is still a very good player and that men's tennis is not only far more physical but also more technically complex.

www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/822372/Andy-Murray-John-McEnroe-2010-best-women-top-1000-men-Serena-Williams

In football the best women's teams lose to local 13-14 yo boys all the time. The world cup winning USA team was demolished by a Dallas boys team , 2-5. The national aussie team lost 0-7 to a random boys team of similar ages. There are countless examples like that. And these boys are no world beaters either, many of them won't even sign a pro contract in their life, never mind start for Real Madrid. If no name barely teenage boys can outplay a top adult women's team without breaking a sweat , imagine how the women would fare against grown ass men. Checking wiki I could not find a single sport where senior women had better records than junior boys. Women's olympic results are often lower than men's who do it as a hobby at their local club. And don't even get me started on violent sports.... Aibu that this is insanity?

www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/

www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/australian-womens-national-team-lose-70-to-team-of-15yearold-boys-a3257266.html

Undefeatable there is no evidence of any physical difference between an male brain and a female brain. This has been shown again and again again but it doesn't suit the current political climate so gets ignored or deliberately misreported. The differences in behavior between biological males and females is largely conditioning and in fact, there is very little evidence to suggest that testosterone has much impact on male behavior though we tend to say it does becuase it fits the popular myth of it all being testosterone's fault.
If you would like to explore this topic further i suggest you try Cordelia fine's excellent book called Testosterone Rex.

Also, as regards testosterone testing in sport. A hormone test/level is largely ineffective as by the time the athlete is competing they have already had the benefit of the hormone to build muscle mass and "masculinize" their body. No amount of testosterone blocker or additional estogen is going alter that. They will be bigger, faster and stronger.

It is like Lance Armstrong packing steroids for 3 months before a big race to build muscle mass and then going clean for the final month to beat the drug testers. The benefit has already been obtained.

@SlowlyShrinking

men are better at x, y, z, a, b, c, d, e,f ,g, h, I, j, k, l, m NO, not n. n is unproven and we think it's because of socialisation ...

Yes, you definitely hold the high ground

last time out, a woman beat her up

@erntwist

What "many" called career ending injuries lasted less than a week. She's fought many times since.

Pick your sources!

undefeatable I’m not sure I understand your point, but men are obviously physically stronger than women (in general). It doesn’t mean men are “better” than women though?
There is no evidence for pink and blue brains. I know you’ve only just learnt that brains aren’t muscle, but surely you have access to google? You could research this so you know a bit more about it.

Shall we ignore the MRA or GF or however it's identifying here?

There is no evidence for pink and blue brains. I know you’ve only just learnt that brains aren’t muscle, but surely you have access to google? You could research this so you know a bit more about it.

No evidence for pink and blue brains? I wish. My gender commits massively more violent crime than women and it can't all be due to socialisation.

No: trans athletes have no place in women's sport. Which may be hard on the real post-surgical gender-dysphoric types - and if you put yourself through that you are genuine. But it's too bad: you can't get away from your physiological advantage over women and you should not be allowed to gain advantage from it in competitive sports. Find another outlet for your talents where that advantage won't applying: shooting, darts or chess.

It's patently unfair and the best thing to mention when you're hoping to peak trans someone. There's some hilarious photos out there as well clearly showing what nonsense it is.

No evidence for pink and blue brains? I wish. My gender commits massively more violent crime than women and it can't all be due to socialisation.

I think testosterone may play a part also. As apparently when transmen start on T they get more violent and commit more crime.

Also please use sex rather than gender. Its muddling them up that got us into this mess in the first pplace..

And another....

Take a look at equestrianism - show jumping, dressage, 3-day eventing etc. Men and women compete in the same events and on equal terms.

Haha. You mean colts and fillies, geldings and mares.

there is no evidence of any physical difference between an male brain and a female brain

Well, there's size and weight (mass for the pedants).

That only tends to matter when actually headbutting your opponent though, in manner of duelling giraffes.

men are better at x, y, z, a, b, c, d, e,f ,g, h, I, j, k, l, m NO, not n. n is unproven and we think it's because of socialisation ...

You could categorise it like that but you could also just lump all those 'better than' under physical' strength. And split 'n' out into exams, driving, persuasion, art, science... and just about everything else in the world that does not involve size and strength.

I'm looking forward to all the transmen who will no doubt be competing with all of other men in the next Olympics.

Some people want to win at all costs. They are highly competitive. Winning is the only thing they care about.

my gender commits massively more violent crime than women and it can't all be due to socialisation

Can you think of any other reasons why someone in the (substantially) weaker half of the population might not have learnt to think of physical violence as an effective reaction to frustration?

You could say the same about drug cheats. They must know on some level that they are cheating, but all the fame and adulation and the buzz of winning is very powerful and they somehow block it out in their own minds.

I really dont get why a transwoman would want to compete against real women?
In the case of Tennis, the £1million Wimbledon prize money might spur them on.

You are absolutely right op. I am amazed this is allowed to happen as it is so clearly cheating.

It doesn't matter if a male athlete has all his bits cut off and pumped full of female hormones, he is still a man.

Yet another example of the idiotic political correctness which infects society today. Madness.

YaNBU. The armed forces have different physical entry levels for men and women. Not because of the roles that they will go on to choose but because we are physically different. Men are generally stronger and faster than women as a whole.