Nursery is absolutely obsessed with mud and mess

[ineedaninstructionmanuel]

AIBU to think there's a limit between encouraging children to play freely and encouraging them to make a mess?

I don't mind a bit of mud but today he is absolutely encrusted in it. He was apparently rolling in a puddle. His jacket is soaking wet and completely filthy. I don't mind a bit of natural mess (most of his nursery clothes are paint stained handmedowns anyway) but this is over the top.

Since he started they have started to send out more and more tweets about creativity and mess being linked. They also tweeted this week a photo of one of the play areas which was totally trashed- lentils and beans poured on the floor, sticks everywhere, things trodden on and mashed in.

My older DS went there and they were much more sensible and realistic... AIBU to have a word?

It's not a case of not being arsed! It's a case of a child choosing to be outside one minute then in the next. If the children were going in the muddy digging area or it was raining then we would but simply to pop out into the grass and back in again they do not but do wear wellies.

It's not a case of not being arsed! It's a case of a child choosing to be outside one minute then in the next.

That makes sense but it does surprise me that the nursery operates that way (not in a judging way, just in a 'that wouldn't have occurred to me' way). At my daughter's playschool they all go out together and they all go in together, they don't wander in and out at will. The outside playtimes are scheduled, although sometimes shortened/cancelled/extended in consideration of the weather.
Fair enough if kids are wandering all over the place, that would be hard to organise.

Mud, paint and all that - fine. I do not like it though when they are encouraged to just chuck stuff about indoors; there should be some activities where they respect the toys and equipment.

My 2 year old GS is with me today and he knows when it is OK to chuck stuff (e.g leaves etc.in the garden) about and when we try and take care of things (e.g jigsaws).

Mishappening, I have really never heard of kids being encouraged to chuck stuff about Willy-nilly.

I think Ofsted insist on it now, Hakarl. Free flow, or some such bollocks.

Hakarl - yes it is the expectation that they should be able to choose indoors or outdoors.

Meowthecat - we are a reception/nursery mixed so the ratio doesnt have to be the same - 50 children to change with 1 member supervising inside , 1 member delivering speech and language therapy/rolling snack/adult supported activities such as cooking, 1 member working with 4 special needs children without whom they struggle significantly to use the areas safely and interact appropriately with other children and 1 outdoors, with no parent helpers. It would compromise safety.

DD’s Nursery gets a good balance. She is outdoors regularly in all weathers but they don’t always go to their woodland area, they also play in a big garden with AstroTurf (=no mud!), on a play ‘road’ with vehicles, construction site, growing area, Wendy house etc so they get a variety of things to do and explore but without getting absolutely filthy. She often needs a change of clothes, but just one every other day or so and goes in with coat, hat and gloves so they are managing to avoid getting everything paint encrusted and muddy.

They also play with lentils, pasta etc, as well as things like boxes, foil, different fabrics but they’re encouraged to clear up and they aren’t allowed to go mad flinging things everywhere.

I feel the same way about this as I do about BLW - at what point in human history was food so easily available you could waste it? Only now. No child in history would have been allowed to just mess about with it without a care in the world. Also, until recent times with easy availability of central heating, washing machines and dryers you would have actively avoided your child getting wet and cold because there was no easy way of warming them up, and you ran the risk of them picking up an illness that could have killed them.

I don't think it is the Ofsted expectation that they can free flow inside or out because at my DDs Outstanding nursery the way the building is means they can't free flow and all go outside together.

I am a Reception teacher and during Child Initiated time they get the choice to go outside at any time, so maybe it's just if logistically impossible, ofsted won't insist on it or something?

That sounds lovely for summer in the UK. It does sound like it might cause issues with children getting wet and cold in winter, though, if there's not the time or staff to dress them properly. It would never work here as it would be bordering on neglectful to let little children outside in this climate without making sure they stay warm and dry! Clean is an added bonus I suppose!

My DC were at Forest Kindergarten today for a full day in minus 3 degrees. We're in northern Scotland. They complained about being too hot. You just need the right clothes.

Merino wool base layer - top, trousers, socks.

Boiled wool mid layer - dungarees, hoodie and thick woollen socks.

Thermal waterproof outer layer.

Merino wool mittens plus waterproof outer mittens.

Thick woollen hat & merino wool buff.

Neoprene wellies.

They can back muddy and happy and smelling of campfire smoke.

Nope. Mud is full of bacteria. I live in a country town and there's so much mud all over the pavements everywhere. I hate it. I'd be really upset if nursery had encouraged my dcs to be covered in and play with mud. They're at school now.

The problems isn't the weather, but the nursery not dressing them in appropriate clothing

I agree Riding a good balance seems best. And as pps point out, organising messy play so that children can be wearing appropriate clothes for it. Sending a child home in a soaking wet coat encrusted with mud on a regular basis is absurd.

I do think the idea of jumping in muddy puddles is romanticised though! It's amazing for toddlers to explore the outdoors and get a bit mucky in the process. Actually playing with mud is overrated imo.

Playing with mud is great but only if you can hose them down afterwards! DD once found a muddle puddle over a blocked drain (urgh, hope there was no sewage mixed up in there) with the neighbour children and they spent a happy hour, unbeknownst to me, scooping up bucketfuls of the muddy water and pouring it over themselves. I made her stand outside while I poured the watering can over her to get the worst off before I let her in to take a shower!

You're right Natsku my kids have happily spent time making mud pies in the garden. It has it's place and it's fun occasionally. I do think it's not something to do everyday though.

When mine were little we didn't have much money so they had one winter coat each and I didn't have a tumble dryer. I'd find it impossible to wash and dry everything after each session.

Let's not underestimate toddlers. They're not always wild animals that want to forage in mess. They love doing other creative fun things too.
Free play is so much more than messy play and it feels like some nurseries focus too heavily on it.

Yeah one coat and no tumble drier is definitely not good for lots of muddy play!! At DD's daycare they had heated cupboards to dry their outdoor clothes after the morning play outside so they'd be dry and warm for the afternoon play (going out at set times makes it much easier, can see how it would be difficult if they're free flowing which sounds like a nightmarish idea for staff). They have them at her school too, at least for her class.

Also just to make the point that Scandinavian outdoor gear isn’t like a winter coat you have to wash and dry. It’s not designed to be laundered often (if at all) and it’s more like technical outdoor gear. I rinse ds s stuff off in the sink if it’s caked.

Sending them out to play in the mud in nice outdoor clothes would be nightmarishly hard! Also here there’s snow on the ground for several months and snow is neither wet nor dirty. The in between weeks which are muddy are more of a challenge.

I think as ds gets older and if we hopefully have another little one we might invest in a drying cabinet for the house.

If anyone is interested in what we would use for wet muddy autumn stuff (whichbis more like the uk weather) then it’s basically this: www.jollyroom.se/barnklader/ytterklader/regnklader/regnstall/didriksons-boardman-fodrat-regnstall-tangerine-70?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIu7eSlPHX1wIVk0MYCh0ZAgtzEAQYAyABEgKAtfD_BwE

Indestructible, warm, fleece lined and I promise, utterly mud proof!

Yeah the good brands are 'playproof' and tend to keep the dirt off somehow (I assume by magic) - I wash them once a year usually, at the end of the season.

This just made me laugh so much! I know what you mean. They do messy play with cold baked beans at my daughter nursery. I just find it gross.

Yes this in and out thing at nursery used to make me very uneasy. I strongly believe in being dressed for the elements. My DS was three when he started nursery and quite capable of putting on his coat and doing it up and putting on mittens and wellies himself.

Some younger kids were much less capable though. I don't like to see really little ones wandering around with cold wet feet and socks or cold wet arms up to the elbow and little red hands.