Nursery is absolutely obsessed with mud and mess

[ineedaninstructionmanuel]

AIBU to think there's a limit between encouraging children to play freely and encouraging them to make a mess?

I don't mind a bit of mud but today he is absolutely encrusted in it. He was apparently rolling in a puddle. His jacket is soaking wet and completely filthy. I don't mind a bit of natural mess (most of his nursery clothes are paint stained handmedowns anyway) but this is over the top.

Since he started they have started to send out more and more tweets about creativity and mess being linked. They also tweeted this week a photo of one of the play areas which was totally trashed- lentils and beans poured on the floor, sticks everywhere, things trodden on and mashed in.

My older DS went there and they were much more sensible and realistic... AIBU to have a word?

Did I take it too far? I thought I was just making a point that there are other ways to play and explore the world.

Maybe I'm old fashioned but there are times when children can be free roaming spirits and times when they can be adult led and benefit from it.
Adult-led doesn't have to be a dirty word.

What a fantastic nursery your child attends
Beats them being sat at home in front of the tv or worse on an IPad

I thought you were going to say they were not letting them get dirty! Which is the case a lot of times. Getting muddy is a good thing if you are enjoying yourself. Mud is the best! Play doh paint is not a concern for a three year old ony for the adult. And why are kids unconcerned with cleanliness? Because it's not that important to their development and putting things up your nose is.
Whether your clothes are slightly soiled or a lot soiled they are going into the wash anyway so what does it matter. What do you do say no no no you can't have fun at playshop because you'll get dirty. Or because your mom doesn't like it.? So what your kid will just sit on the bench while the other kids explore and have fun? That would suck! And really if you've ever had fun outdoors in a temperate climate there is no exclusion of mud! Horse riding, hiking, biking, they are all super muddy and super fun. So go out and get yourself as muddy as your daughter and enjoy it! You're not being unreasonable but you were raised in a world where Victorian values told you dirt was wrong we all were! Don't get your Sunday school clothes dirty. Don't be bold. It's deeply engrained in girls especially not to get down and dirty in all ways! That's hard to overcome and the dirty kid is a challenge to some deep cultural issues. But they are our issues. So long as they are keeping her safe and warm like she's not sodding wet shivering or eating dog turds then the rest is fine. Better than fine. It will be what her generation has that a e didn't and different values will come out of that. And yes there is lots of research that being allowed to get dirty is important. Not to purposefully get dirty, but to just stop seeing dirt in the same way we stop seeing race or stop seeing sexual orientation, ya just don't make an issue out of it. Ya don't mention how dirty she is, ya just deal with how it makes you feel an talk to others about it, and yes it makes us squirm! But so did black kids beig allowed sit beside white for some generation of moms. So I'd say it's not unreasonable but it's your issue and it would be unreasonable to make your issue into your daughters issue or the schools issue.

JaneyW74 you make it sound like there are only two options?! And what's so bad about a bit of tv or games on an iPad for a preschooler sometimes?

muthafuzza the OP is talking about her SON...

Ok five times a day is excessive changing! She needs better clothing for whatever she is doing. Get her some fort ex trousers some gaiters or wellies and a good raincoat one that is just the light one with the cuff that can be opened and closed so she can roll up her sleeves and just put her in a t shirt and that should work for ya. If she's getting that wet that she needs emergency clothing then she needs waterproofing! If it's just mud then stop worrying about her looking perfect every moment of te day and just change her in the afternoon. Kids aren't models off the telly! Like artists don't change their clothes every two minute a to stay perfect and builder men don't change their clothes every time they get a speck of plaste r on them. They slap on work overalls and slip out of them in te hall after work and weirdly enough they get by in life just fine! Unless they have overbearing wives that insist on then beig pristine at all times should elope magazine drop by! Kids aren't ornaments, they are living creatures and they don't always need to be clean to be loved!

Oops missed hat typo I meant gortex trousers! About 20 quid breathable waterproof and pretty much indestrcuutable!

This sort of nonsense pisses me off too. DS nursery had a lovely garden for the older kids - some play equipment, planting area , grass for playing football. This has all been replaced by a 'mud kitchen'. He frequently comes home covered in mud - coat, gloves, face, under nails etc. it pisses me off because it is me / DH who has to deal with getting him clean at home which he hates. Not sure what he learns from all this tbh

Oh I am sorry I am effectively blind right now so my phone keeps spelling everything for me and I can barely see any more. Eyesight degenerating basically. And there's nothing wrong with an iPad at all. Except that most kids get quite enough of that through their lives and have sorely missed out on actually real world activity which the developing brain is built for thousands of millions of years for doing stuff in. Te virtual world is a wonderful escape from real life we all enjoy it but getting out and living as a real life active being is far more important to development than entertainment. It's great for fine motor skills though and the world is gonna be lived on line in the future so they do need a bit of that at some stage, just maybe not so much when they are getting to grips with how their bodies work and all that.

Surely this is what Nursery time is for?? The messier my kid used to be when I picked him up, the happier I was! I knew he would have had a good time, and that he would probably have a lovely nap and let me get on with some work!

Since having the next three and home educating them, I love it more, I join in! I would much rather their memories of me were 'Remember Mum jumping in that puddle with us down near the canal!' rather than 'D'you remember mum hated us getting messy.'
I have less money than the local church mice but I have enough to stick me washing machine on a couple of extra times if it means the kids are enjoying themselves. :-)

I think that fun and mess and creativity are totally linked for kids! I'm a teacher and always so pro fun, messy, outdoorsy activities as the best thing for children. So many children now spend so much time plonked in front of a TV, or with their parents spraying horrible chemical filled products all over their houses/children at the slightest sign of dirt, destroying their immune systems and exposing them to God-knows-what side effects... If your child is at a nursery that embraces and encourages children to be children and have fun and learn creatively and messily then lucky you! This would be great for most children. If you don't like their approach then I'd suggest you move your child to a different nursery as it's not fair to expect them to change their approach to teaching and childcare just because you don't like the mess!

Well said Mimiandroo!

Definitely send him in proper waterproofs - all in one or decent water proof trousers plus jacket but all in ones are better for nursery age.
When my DD was in daycare they were encouraged to play in the dirt and puddles as much as possible, and then they'd hose down their waterproofs before going inside and I'd do the same when I picked her up (literally just stood them outside the door and turned the hose on them!)

Interesting to see the split in the different sides of the debate here. I work in a nursery and children have the choice between lots of different activities. no one forces the children to do anytging, it is their choice so less mess inclined children are free to engage in the activities They would like to but are asked if They would like a go. Aprons are provided and their use is taught. They have free reign to go outside and must put on welly boots to go on the grass where it is muddy sometimes. Although they are not encouraged to roll around on it, mud can sometimes get on their clothes if they fall over and very sadly our staffing and budget doesn't stretch to helping 50 children put on and take off waterproof clothing but denying children who might not have a garden at home or who are not taken to the park, seems the worse of the two options.
Messy play is good for children, along of course, with other experiences as it encourages language skills and can encourage children who wouldnt engage with certain activities to get involved because it is fun ie: find the letters from your name inside the jelly is much more fun than fill out this nice clean boring age inappropriate work sheet.
The use of food in messy play and whether it is appropriate when some people on the world are hungry is an interesting point. Personally I am for it. For instance - using real carrots, sweet potatoes, shallots etc in the role play is much more engaging than plastic ones that don't look real. It teaches children how food is meant to look and feel. I use pasta and lentils sometimes in the sandtray so children can listen to the sounds they make when they drop them, make musical instruments etc. If food is being used to teach then in my opinion it is not a waste. Also I often have to pay for resources out of my own pocket and it is by far one of the cheapest options to provide great learning opportunities.
I feel children should have these experiences but they should be taught to clear up, tidy away, respect their environment and their friends by leaving it as they found it.

Apologies for random T's, typing on a phone with tiny keys is tricky!

I think mess/mud is good in moderation, but nurseries can also take this kind of thing too far. And they should be getting children involved in tidying up. Parents aren't just there to be slaves to their children, dealing with endless endless piles of laundry.

I am reminded of the weaning debates when my daughter was a baby.

There was a contingent of mums who were obsessed with hard-core BLW and self-feeding EVERYTHING, and who spent half their time going on about how this made life SO much easier, and the other half congratulating themselves on how every mealtime resulted in a blizzard of mess, stripping off and changing clothes, clearing food splats off every wall, piles of wasted food, laundry, washing babies' hair because they were rubbing food through their hands and then smearing it all over themselves etc., turning restaurants into pigpens because the babies were throwing and smearing food everywhere...SO MUCH FUN!!

Personally, I did a mixture of self-feeding and spoonfeeding, but mostly reserved the self-feeding for the evening meal when we would be doing cleanup and laundry anyway--I did not want that kind of mess 3x a day and I definitely would not allow my child to make unnecessary levels of mess in a restaurant or other public place. According to some mums, that makes me uptight....!

Ds goes to nursery in Sweden.

It’s expected that you send them in in appropriate clothes - that means fully waterproof suit in summer, fleece lined raingear in autumn, and full winter kit. Waterproof over gloves, wellies, the lot. And changes of clothes.

They get filthy - and then they have a two room change room system where the grim outer layers get stripped off and put in drying cupboards, then an inner change room thats dry for donning wool layers etc.
No shoes past the outer area means indoors stays clean. Inside they runaround in socks and normal clothes.

The issue isn’t the mess, it’s how they cope with it. It sounds like they are embracing the mess, which is fine, without kitting the kids out properly or separating clean and messy.

Find proper outdoor gear (pop, Didrikson are both sold in the uk.)

Oh yes and they always get the kids to clean up after they’ve done an activity.

Ds is two and has just proudly helped me unload the dishwasher - he also takes rubbish to the bin and insists on helping with the bins.

PFB?

Messy play is linked to creative development. As a teacher I'm all for it. I also use food for sensory play, things like lentils, cornflakes, bunches of herbs to scrunch. I use real vegetables in the kitchen area instead of horrible plastic things.

I also donate to food banks when I can.

Yeah surely helping them get into waterproofs is just something that needs to be done? It has to be done here (Finland - waterproofs and then about a million layers in winter for the snow), they teach the children early how to do much of it themselves anyway.

Getting them dressed here is just part of the process. They spend a lot of time outdoors and they have to be dressed properly.

I’d be appalled at a nursery who couldn't be arsed to dress kids correctly.

I left ds wading in an ice filled puddle in the sandpit yesterday at nursery. Along with his little buddies. He always needs a bath when he gets home but is always dressed for the weather.

Messy play should be constructive. It's not about flinging mud about willy nilly and rolling in puddles. What are they getting from that?

I wouldn't be happy at all.

DD goes to playschool in Iceland and I agree with everything @Anatidae said. I think the problem is inappropriate clothing more than inappropriate activities. They go outside twice everyday unless the weather is absolutely dreadful (high winds) and spend longer outside when the weather is nice. But they are always dressed properly and do not get wet, cold or muddy/sandy on their normal clothes.
When they are painting or what have you they wear those waterproof bibs with sleeves so do not get paint on their clothes.
Daughter always comes home in pretty much the same state as she went.

I think it's dreadful if the nursery are allowing the poor kids to get wet to the skin or anything, that really should not be happening in my opinion. You need to invest in some proper outside gear and insist the nursery ensure your child is wearing it.