Dad taking dd to ladies toilet

[AdaHopper]

MN - help dh and I with a disagreement please.

When dd(4) needs the loo in a public place, he takes her to the ladies' loos. I told him that women don't like that and he should take her to the men's loo. Aibu or is he?

the sex of the adult that determines the appropriate place

Why? Why not the sex of the child.

Because a lot of women find adult men intimidating and therefore don't want them in their toilets where there is an enclosed space and it might be hard to make a quick getaway.

I've never met an adult man who is frightened by a small female child.

Well I would suggest that a 7 year old should be able to go to the loo by herself. So Dad escorts her to the ladies, remains outside the door (the main door to the ladies not the cubicle) whilst she does her toilet business and then there is no problem.
My DH would always take our DDs to the gents if I wasn't there.

Most of the time this isn't an issue is it? My DH goes into places with individual cubicles which are unisex or baby change with a toilet in. Modern shops tend to have a family room which is great.

I think it depends where you are. There are toilets I wouldn't let a 7yo into with dad outside.

Toffee Do you believe that the disabled loo should always be free and never in use? How do you feel about waiting for another disabled user to exit it if you or your child needs it?

How do you know that the person using it doesn't have a hidden disability, such as a bladder or bowel health issue, where they are desperate for a loo and all the others are in use?

i understand the need to loos for the disabled but I don't understand their insistence that it has to be vacant for them, at any given moment.

Our almost 5yo DD has started wanting to use the loo on her own. When DH is out with her he either uses a unisex family toilet (NOT a disabled toilet, where we live local soft plays all have family loos) that is just an individual cubicle and sink, a bit like a disabled toilet. or if there’s no family toilet he stands near the entrance to the ladies while she goes in alone. A couple of times he’s asked politely of someone going in to check she is OK. I’ve just asked him if he’d ever felt compelled to go in with her. He gave me a look and asked if I was feeling alright

Definitely depends on the sex of the adult (this rule has been enforced at swimming pools etc) and age limit around 8.
I'd use accessible first and then mens atm unless I knew the mens was OK.
Solution is to build the urinals so they're not visible from the entrance/cubicles and employ a more frequent cleaner.

Why is it okay for a man to take his daughter into the mens toilets but appalling for a man to take his daughter into the womens? Why do women get sex only spaces but anyone can go in the mens? What are MNetters so afraid of about men?

Always the gents. When they're too old (6/7) for the gents, DH stands outside the ladies and waits for them. If they can't reach the taps / soap (surprisingly often the sinks are really high and the taps are at the back), they know to ask a lady for help.

Reasons men (exception of cleaners where it states male cleaners as it gives women a choice to choose other toilets) should never set foot in the ladies. The Muslim woman rearranging her hijab away from male view. The woman with a baby who left the door open to keep an eye on the child in a pushchair. The woman getting changed in the open space rather than the cubicle because it's busy and she expects the area to be free from males.

Are you serious curiosity?

Maybe the endemic of sexual violence and unwanted attention we have to tolerate our entire lives? (Or until we get old enough to become invisible)

ok so it’s so horrible for girls to go to the loos in the men toilet that a grown man should be allowed to go in the ladies.
Now what about boys? If the loos are so awful, surely that the case too for boys? And teenage boys? And what about grown adults men? Should they also say that because women loos are so much cleaner, they should in there too (won’t happen, they’d have to queue which they won’t like)?

The answer to ‘the loos are horrid in the men’ is for men to start being more careful, not pee everywhere, learn to flush etc...
Oh and start cleaning the loos at home too.
I’m sure that after, it will be totally possible for father’s to take their dd to the men loos.

The reason DH would take DD into an accessible toilet is to avoid the potential upset of "barging" into the ladies. I don't agree that makes him an utter shit.

I don't understand the yapping over people using disabled toilets. They nearly always double up as baby changing so not just for people with disabilities.

Wtfdoipick

I’ve never seen a woman leaving the cubicle open to watch her baby or a muslim lady rearranging her hijab or anyone getting changed in a public loo - I think that last one would be strange. Are these real experiences you’ve had or just situations you’ve made up to try and prove a point? Because I don’t think these things happen.

streetlife70s Why do you think men going to do their business are a threat to you? There are males everywhere you are no more likely to be assaulted from a father with his daughter in the womens bathroom than any stranger in the world anywhere.

In fact most sexual violence happens by people the perpetrator knew, so should we just not interact with men at all?

What are MNetters so afraid of about men?

Personally I'm not particularly intimidated by men because I've been fortunate to have decent, respectful men in my life.

But frankly the crime statistics on male on female violence indicate that I probably should be wary of men as a group.

Fwiw re unisex loo, I have no issue in paper about it.
I do expect the loss to stay as clean as they would be in the ladies. Why should I have to put up with dirty loos, pee on the seat, loos stinking of urine because (some) men can’t be bothered to be careful?
I expect that the men in my house to be careful and not to pee everywhere. I’m sure they can also do that outside the home.

Of course we should interact with them. Not when we are at our most intimate and vulnerable though. Changing rooms, toilets etc.

Curiosity
I have seen women peeing with the door open and the buggy in front of the door.
I’ve seen muslin women rearranging their Hijab too.
Just as I. Have seen women reapplying make up for example.
Pretty common where I live tbh.

I've never seen a Muslim lady take her hijab off in the toilets either, but just yesterday on a thread a Muslim lady said she does just that. There's no reason to disbelieve her, and if she does it, it would seem logical that other Muslim ladies might do it too.

I don't really remember this being an issue when the DC were small, DH took them to the baby change facility that usually has a toilet for children as well. When they were too old to use that they use the toilets for the correct sex. My older kids are DDs though and I think it's a lot easier for a father to stand outside the ladies loos and let their DD go into the ladies alone than it is for an 8 year old boy to go into a mens toilet alone (DS is 5 so still needs an adult with him and has to come to the ladies with me if DH isn't with us).

It's not really about the nasty smells or men using urinals though is it. The issue here is men's violence isn't it. A boy is more likely to get hurt in a man's toilet than a girl is to get hurt in a ladies toilet. However 'naice' the establishment is.

You were out as a family, it really makes much more sense for you to have taken her.

The countless incidence of harassment and abuse are carried out daily on women are by strangers and I’m sure most women on here would agree.
Rapes, yes. Usually by someone they know. The rest? The general leering, comments, unwanted approaches that we have to tolerate in general daily life? Strangers. So just leave us alone while we take a pee.

I don't understand the yapping over people using disabled toilets. They nearly always double up as baby changing so not just for people with disabilities.

The real issue is that there needs to be 2 types, one exclusively for people with disabilities via key and the other an accessible toilet for families that can be used for changing/ if you don't want to park your buggy outside a cubicle/ Dad doesn't want to let 8yo into ladies alone etc etc.

So that way the disabled person would have their toilet and the able bodied could queue for the other. Anyone who buys a key off Amazon would be an utter shit and I'd be with Toffee there.

But the standard facilities can be difficult for a variety of reasons. But it isn't right to have baby changing in disabled anyway, people can be in there for ages. And I think it's perfectly reasonable for people with disabilities to be aggrieved about that.

I’ve seen LOADS of women adjust skirts and bras, buy sanitary items and women arrange hijabs (I lived in an area with high Muslim population until 2 years ago) All is these things women would probably prefer not to do around men.