to think people should stop using this part of the forum as a substitute for being in a trade union

[GracielaSabrocita]

It's a common theme on AIBU?: my employer is doing something terrible. Sooner or later someone asks the OP if they are a member of a trade union, which they never are (or else they wouldn't be posting in the first place).

If you can't be bothered to join a union, please don't complain or ask us to sort your problems when your employer treats you like shit.

Wow OP, you are utterly clueless.

That doesn't add to the debate. If I'm so utterly clueless you should be able outline some sort of argument against my points.

Many employers - small ones in particular - don't have the ubiquitous HR department to refer things to, and huge numbers of people don't belong to a union, simply because there isn't one for them to join. In small businesses there's frequently nobody to report things to. And often, the manager or owner is the one you are having the issue with, so you can hardly complain to them, can you.

Yes you can join a union! That's the whole point of the thread.

But having worked in an unionised workplace vs one that wasn't, it really was night and day

Exactly!

YABU seeing as you don't personally own this forum and therefore shouldn't have any say in what others do or don't post. If you don't want to give people advice then don't! Skip the thread altogether and read others??
I don't remember MNHQ ever banning threads about work problems!!

Lots of workplaces don't have a recognised union. Also joining a Union is a very political move - it's not just about having access to advice in the event of a dispute, for most people it's about showasing their leftist credentials and aligning yourself with that left-wing ethos.

If you're not politically engaged, or are not a fan of the whole socialist worker mentality, unions are not relevant to you. I've never been in a Union.

I'm a member of a union.
If people posting on here means they see the advice to join one then great.

Equally, I don't believe only those of us in a union are entitled ti exercise our employment rights.

I think more people should join a union. Some advice is hit and miss but the local reps are volunteers doimg this in their lwn time and I am grategul for the ability to talk to them about things.

YABU to think people should put up, join a union or shut up on here. They are valid questions and just because I might think it's obvious doesn't mean the solution is obvious to someone else.

I admit that my OP is OTT. In retrospect it should read like this:

to think people should stop using this part of the forum as a substitute for being in a trade union

It's a common theme on AIBU?: my employer is doing something terrible. Sooner or later someone asks the OP if they are a member of a trade union, which they never are (or else they probably wouldn't be posting in the first place).

If you can't be bothered to join a union, please don't be surprised when your employer treats you like shit.

I'm not suggesting employment threads don't belong on MN, but I am saying that anyone who disapproves of workers being treated badly should be in a trade union.

Lots of workplaces don't have a recognised union. Also joining a Union is a very political move - it's not just about having access to advice in the event of a dispute, for most people it's about showasing their leftist credentials and aligning yourself with that left-wing ethos.

If you're not politically engaged, or are not a fan of the whole socialist worker mentality, unions are not relevant to you. I've never been in a Union.

Nonsense. Do you think workers should have rights? Do you like the fact that workers have rights? (Unfortunately not many nowadays.) Do you disapprove of employers treating workers like shit? Then you belong in a union. That has nothing to do with whether you believe in capitalism or socialism.

TBH, I agree with MaisyPops - I can understand your frustration OP as I do think more people joining unions would help counteract the drive towards zero employment rights, but I think the way you phrased it sounds critical of individuals in a shit situation which is naturally causing people to react defensively.

Thanks for raising the topic though - I think many people have never worked in a place with a union so have no idea what they can do. So I hope the discussion will help.

Oops crosspost.

PoppyPopcorn

unions are not relevant to you

Educate yourself. Sick pay, holiday pay not relevant to you? Rights fought for and won by trade unions. Help during redundancy, disciplinary and competency proceedings not relevant?

Workers rights are not a left right issue they are about human rights. A right to secure employment and fair treatment.

Management try to convince you you don't need a union but believe me when stuff goes wrong you need all the help you can get. Good luck when the sun shines but when it starts to rain you might change your mind.

Unions represent their members if you don't like the leaders join, vote and change them.

Moussemoose - I'm self-employed.

If you're not politically engaged, or are not a fan of the whole socialist worker mentality, unions are not relevant to you. I've never been in a Union.

If you work, and most of us have to, then unions are relevant to you. Your reference to a ‘socialist worker mentality’ is out of touch.

The minimum wage, maternity rights at work, paid leave, the weekend ffs!

All campaigned for and won by the trade union movement and all enjoyed by every UK worker.

You may not like it very much but trade unions are relevant to you.

PoppyPopcorn
I'm self-employed

And still part of society. The more rights people have the better people are treated the better for all of us.

Unions are relevant to everyone.

I used to be in a union.

Only thing I ever got out of them was "sorry mate, can't help you."

If you aren't in a unionised workplace join the IWW (iww.org.uk) or a Unite branch. Both of these will assist you; personally I would say the IWW who are far more adept at non unionised workplaces. A similar union, the UVW, recently won massive victories for precarious workers in cleaning jobs, and they weren't recognised by the employer either. I am a long-time union activist personally and I think if the thread persuades people to seek out their union it can't be a bad thing. Just a caveat to any advice anyone gives though, the law is mainly weighted towards the employer so keep expectations managed and do speak to a union rep.

I'm in a Union and they've represented me twice, my rep is brilliant 👍

You may be in a non-unionised workplace or for whatever reason the union cannot represent your particular concerns (personality clashes with local officials is often one).

So whilst advocating union membership, I do not think it unreasonable to post on here.

C3pu, some unions aren't very good, but often it's individuals who are not representative as a whole. One union in one workplace may have not helped, whereas elsewhere the experience would have prob been better. Good and bad in every situation.

The minimum wage, maternity rights at work, paid leave, the weekend ffs!

All campaigned for and won by the trade union movement and all enjoyed by every UK worker.

You may not like it very much but trade unions are relevant to you.

Very well said!

If you aren't in a unionised workplace join the IWW (iww.org.uk) or a Unite branch. Both of these will assist you; personally I would say the IWW who are far more adept at non unionised workplaces. A similar union, the UVW, recently won massive victories for precarious workers in cleaning jobs, and they weren't recognised by the employer either.

Exactly! If people receive good advice on MN then great, but it's no substitute for being in a union.

I'm in a union. It's not recognised by my employer, but I see it a bit like insurance - I don't want to be in the position of having to use it, but if I ever am, I will be glad of it. And I find it an easy way to keep more or less abreast of changes in employment law and my rights, though obviously there are other ways of doing that. It seems many don't bother, though (like my line manager.)

I have been on a women in STEM day organised by my union, and I have had subsidised careers counselling through my union - it's not all about pay and workplace disputes.

I have used them for advice for a couple of situations over the years; I've also asked in MN, to get a range of opinions. For me, the union was there to say, yes, you would have a case, and these are the steps you'd need to take, and this is the evidence you nee to gather. MN was there for people to say, okay, you might have a case, but what do you want to achieve? I went through this, and I am not sure it was worth the effort, or I went through this, and it was horrible, but it paid off in the end, and I am in a far better position now. It gives a range of opinions, and that can help come to a decision about what might be the best way forward.

I'm in a union. They have been very poor. Individuals in my workplace, including me) have had poor, occasionally incorrect advice. In one instance, it was actually my HR Dept who fought for me when the union refused to help. In our local area, the union has agreed to allow our employer to change some of our terms of employment without consulting the membership. This has meant that most employees are now worse off. They have also allowed the employer to 'take back' a facility that union members paid for by giving up a day of leave - so now we have a day less leave and no facility. The only reason I am in the union is because there is a (remote) possibility that I may need to call on them for legal support at some point. Otherwise, they are useless.

a few point 1 its not for you to decide what is put on mumsnet on unions in general it seems the workers in most need of rights zhc ect unions are useless and those with good jobs train drivers conductors do.

I agree op.

Unions are critical to ensuring changes to people’s working conditions are fair and fir advising individuals on their rights at work.

You will need them even more after Brexit when hard won rights will be threatened. No wonder the tories are rubbing l their hands together with glee.

That said, your union is only as good as your rep and some of them are just useless. But a good rep can save your job and reputation.

What? I've been an active member of my union for years and also have two different rep roles for them. I still ask questions on mumsnet about work issues sometimes. Ffs.