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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think suspending the teacher was extreme?

523 replies

LouBlue1507 · 14/11/2017 09:25

A maths teacher has been suspended, probably going to be sacked for accidently calling a trans child a girl whilst referring 'well done girls' to a small group of girls. He apologised for his mistake, but weeks later the parents complained.

I don't think he's helped himself by going to the press and 'This Morning' but for a class of pupils to lose a good teacher over this?

It's obvious that the majority of teachers need training on transgender, gender fluid etc. It's not fair that they are thrown in the deep end with no training what so ever. I bet most don't even know what half of it even means!

OP posts:
ReanimatedSGB · 16/11/2017 19:17

Thing is, there are lots of people who identify in some way as trans, and only a few of them are vicious arseholes. (Many of those who appear as vicious arseholes are not trans at all. Some are lefty douchebros getting excited at another opportunity to bully women and/or tell women what feminism is. Some are MRAs of the 'prankster/troll' sort.)

I know quite a lot of trans people. Some non-binary, some transmen, some transwomen. Most of them just want to get on with their lives, dressing and socialising in ways that feel comfortable. The bullshit, bigotry and scaremongering (some of which is happening on both sides) is making many of my basically nice, harmless friends feel miserable and scared. (of being outed, fired, spread all over the news as a danger to children, beaten up, etc).
I wish there was a way of making the whole discussion less fucking poisonous and polarized.

Italiangreyhound · 17/11/2017 00:20

"I wish there was a way of making the whole discussion less fucking poisonous and polarized."

I do too.

sagamartha · 17/11/2017 07:24

I do too

Totally agree.

Oliversmumsarmy · 17/11/2017 07:41

Nrtht or watched This Morning but ds gets called a girl most days.

Even dressed in joggers and a t shirt people refer to him as a girl.
His football coach who coaches him in an all boys football team thought he was a girl who liked football. It only came to light after about 18months when I heard him shout the full female version of his name out a few times before it dawned on me that the guy actually thought he was a girl and was not doing it as a joke.

In these situations if we had got on our high horses would that mean we could have got a whole host of people sacked.
A lot of these people know ds is a boy but forget when he is stood infront of them.

Datun · 17/11/2017 08:15

"I wish there was a way of making the whole discussion less fucking poisonous and polarized."

I completely agree.

I disagree with the ideology on almost every level. And I have tremendous compassion for parents whose children are trans, and for people with gender dysphoria.

It’s entirely possible to hold both those views at the same time.

One of the reasons it becomes polarised is because the ideology asserts that you have to agree with every dot and comma, otherwise it means you hate trans people and want them to die.

And if you want them to die, there is no point in talking to you. Hence #nodebate.

You become a terf, you are beyond redemption and it’s at that point where it becomes utterly ‘poisonous‘.

Women who are gender critical, concerned for children and women’s rights are not the ones doing the poisoning.

On here, you occasionally get people vehemently disagreeing if one is against the ideology. And you get called transphobic and bigoted. But that’s about it.

It doesn’t tend to degenerate into the quite shocking vitriol that plays out elsewhere online.

And it’s not coming from women, and it never comes from feminists.

If women are angry it’s because they have been goaded beyond endurance. But I’ve yet to see them degenerate to the name-calling, threatening and insulting that they are themselves subjected to.

And of course, we are talking about transactivists. Not someone’s mate who wants to present as female because they have gender dysphoria and is hameless and suffering.

But the ideology is on a trajectory which will harm far too many people for it to be ignored.

So there are two reasons to object. Firstly transactivists are mainly awful, entitled violent men who want to change laws and don’t give a fuck about anyone but themselves.

Secondly it’s challenging the very reason for transgenderism in the first place. Why do vulnerable people feel the need to change gender? What are we doing wrong as a society that is producing this, let’s face it, first world problem? Why are our young women coming out in droves and claiming they are men?

So when feminists do things like look at crime rate, look at suicide stats, they’re not trying to have a gotcha moment. They are trying to dismantle the rhetoric that clouds every single issue.

"I wish there was a way of making the whole discussion less fucking poisonous and polarized."

We can. On here, at least.

CecilyP · 17/11/2017 08:15

No, Oliver’s, the paradox is that they would only face the sack is your DS really was a girl! A girl who says she is a boy! If you make the mistake with an actual boy, it is just fine!

woodhill · 17/11/2017 08:48

Completely agree Datsun

woodhill · 17/11/2017 08:48

Sorry Datun

Puzzledandpissedoff · 17/11/2017 12:51

Stellar post, Datun Flowers

IrianOfW · 17/11/2017 12:57

He actually said 'political correctness gone mad!' Grin I didn't beleive real people actually said that! Idiot.

BoneyBackJefferson · 17/11/2017 17:35

To all those saying "there must be more to this"

There really doesn't have to be more to this at all. It may not be the case here but it could just be parents that make a complaint against a teacher that they don't like and a school that wants rid.

ReanimatedSGB · 17/11/2017 17:47

Datun, I have heard of unpleasant, unkind and offensive behaviour from 'feminists'. Ok, some of it has been from professional trolls like Julie Burchill (not Bindel, please note) and some of the stuff on Twitter might well be from either pranksters (who are neither women nor trans nor feminists) given that Twitter is so utterly bandit country.
There is also so much claim-and-counter-claim that it becomes instinctive to take nearly every new scare story with at least half a pint of salt (the one that most immediately springs to mind is the organ donors business - some people are claiming that evil trans women are bullying their female-bodied, child-free allies to donate their wombs to the trans women, some people are claiming that evil feminists are trying to persuade all ciswomen to refuse permission for their organs to be donated in case transpeople get their nasty trans hands on them. Both these claims sound completely nuts to an outsider - if such a thing as a womb transplant was even fully feasible, it would be risky and have a very limited chance of success, but let's not let that get in the way of yet another social media clusterfuck...)

Italiangreyhound · 17/11/2017 17:59

But one day wombs may well be transplanted. So it's not exactly pie in the sky. Lili, the famous trans woman (actually intersex) the woman behind the film the Danish girl, died, or so I believe, due to failed treatment to transplant reproductive organs (and that was a long time ago).

Datan I totally see your point.

I am always trying to sit on the fence on these things. Which is why most people disagree with me about something. But I think some fence sitting is needed.

I can see both sides to some extent. The real boogie person at the moment is self identification. And in a way the position of children socially transitioning falls kind of into self-identification.

Datun · 17/11/2017 18:09

reanimated

some people are claiming that evil trans women are bullying their female-bodied, child-free allies to donate their wombs to the trans women, some people are claiming that evil feminists are trying to persuade all ciswomen to refuse permission for their organs to be donated in case transpeople get their nasty trans hands on them.

I can tell you exactly where that came from. The news item that said womb transplants were a day away.

On a particular site TRAs went ballistic about it and how amazing it would be. Lib fem allies then pledged their wombs to these men.

Feminists then commented that there is no way they would want to donate their wombs to transwomen, since the ideology is misogynistic. On a separate site entirely.

At which point the TRAs had a very mudslinging ‘war of the wombs’ reaction.

It was one of those ridiculous online, niche situations.

But the underlying problem to it is that you are frequently dealing with highly sexist, entitled men. Not just in that situation. It’s a theme.

That particular situation was ludicrous. But so many of them are that it just becomes par for the course.

Datun · 17/11/2017 18:13

Italiangreyhound

Regarding wombs. It’s not just about how ridiculous it is to give wombs to men, when there are women who need them. It’s about the whole concept of women as a collection of organs to be harvested.

The feminist viewpoint is that it will disadvantage women. Your white, middle-class, rich woman won’t be the person donating her womb, right? It will be the disadvantaged, vulnerable women who need the money.

HerOtherHalf · 17/11/2017 18:13

There really doesn't have to be more to this at all. It may not be the case here but it could just be parents that make a complaint against a teacher that they don't like and a school that wants rid.

Possibly, if you just read the strapline and decide you know the full story. If, however, you take the time to do just a teensy-weensy bit of research into the case and perhaps watch the man himself in interview you might draw a completely different conclusion:

Datun · 17/11/2017 18:13

I can see both sides to some extent. The real boogie person at the moment is self identification. And in a way the position of children socially transitioning falls kind of into self-identification.

Totally.

HerOtherHalf · 17/11/2017 18:18

Out of interest, how many people that have chosen to support him on this thread would have done so if he was being disciplined for persecuting a gay colleague? I appreciate the transgender debate is a passionate one but at the heart of this specific case is a teacher bullying a child and choosing to disregard school policy. It's as simple as that.

BoneyBackJefferson · 17/11/2017 18:20

HerOtherHalf

So far we have
his truth
the child's truth (allegedly)
the parent's truth
the school's truth
the investigation board's truth
and the christian legal centre's truth.

People are choosing the truth that suits them and their beliefs. That doesn't mean that what they believe is the actual truth.

sagamartha · 17/11/2017 18:20

The way this incident was presented by the Daily Mail gave the impression that it was a 'one off' incident he got suspended for - and that's going to give him a lot of sympathy.

I guess that's what the Daily Mail intended. Give a misleading headline to generate sympathy for a teacher over a trans issue.

sagamartha · 17/11/2017 18:22

People are choosing the truth that suits them and their beliefs. That doesn't mean that what they believe is the actual truth

Ain't that the truth. Grin

(And that applies to many things in the media and in stories online)

BoneyBackJefferson · 17/11/2017 18:27

HerOtherHalf
but at the heart of this specific case is a teacher bullying a child and choosing to disregard school policy. It's as simple as that.

You have already chosen your truth, its as simple as that.

No-one here knows what really happened

HerOtherHalf · 17/11/2017 18:42

You have already chosen your truth, its as simple as that.

I am a firm believer in the principle of inmocent until proven guilty and if you check my previous posts in this thread you might find that I pointedly stressed the word "alleged" at least once. The man is entitled to due process and will get that through the disciplinary proceedings that are ongoing. That said, if you actually bother to watch the interview I provided a link to you might witness one of the most straightforward cases of someone hoisting themself by their own petard that I have seen in quite some time.

BoneyBackJefferson · 17/11/2017 19:01

That said, if you actually bother to watch the interview

He also said that it only happened once and that he called "her" (quoting him) the students chosen name.

But like I previously posted the real truth will never be known as there seems to be so many sides to this story.

sagamartha · 17/11/2017 19:04

He also said that it only happened once and that he called "her" (quoting him) the students chosen name

So why do you think the teacher was suspended then?

Do you think it was just for this single incident?

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