To be a little upset about DS Christmas play?

[NannyPlum40]

My 6yr old DS has just been told what part he is doing in the Christmas play and has no words to say.

He is upset and said he wants to say something or he doesn't want to do the play because he will be bored just sat there for 30mins.

He is more then capable of learning a few lines but because he is one of the quiet ones in class (teachers words) they always give the talking parts to the loud, confident children. Does this seem to be the norm in every school?

It seems that because my DS knuckles down at school and gets on with his work rather then being chatty, he gets penalised!!

flowerpot I sincerely hope you are not a teacher.

ifyoucantstandtheheat
resilience needs to be taught.

Hallelujah. Then teach your child it, don't get uppity because your child isn't chosen to read or doesn't get picked for the school play. There are many strategies for teaching your child resilience, including the "don't rescue them" and allow them to "face fear" steps. If you are saying a child's confidence is damaged by not being picked, then they need to build resilience to cope with not being picked. Picking them is rescuing them, avoiding the event which they cannot handle. It's totally the wrong way to go about this.

I can't help but have a giggle at the irony of your username in this discussion ifyoucantstandtheheat btw..

Building resilience is great. A necessary life skill, agreed. But why does it seem to only be certain children who are needing to develop this skill? I can name a list of children straight off who have never needed any resilience at our school, as no matter what it is, sports, drama, prayers, awards, they are always chosen! And this seems to be across the board in schools from what I’m reading here. I’m totally up for my children dealing with life lessons along the way, but this should go for everyone

surprised at some of these comments - can see the 'school of hard knocks' parents out in force!

jaxhog

I don't see a problem with asking the teacher if he can have a speaking part. They'll probably say no but they may also say yes. As my dad used to say 'if you don't ask, you don't get'!

The world is pretty shit so why not try and make it a bit more pleasant for your little ones??

itsallfuckery well said.

flowerpot many quiet children can handle being given lines in school plays. If they are never given the chance to do so then it does nothing but damage confidence.

There is no point in arguing with you about it as you clearly have a winner takes all mentality. Which is fine if your kids are confident.

As for the rest, well they can stay at the bottom of the heap, because it is clearly not (in your opinion) the job of teachers to help them to build confidence!!!!

Nice

I do think that in each individual event not everyone can have a speaking part but over a year it ought to be shared out a bit. My DS struggles with many things I school but being confident on stage is not one of them..but he never gets a decent part in a play or assembly because they think he won't cope..but how will they or he ever know if they don't trust him? I'm group songs etc he is always loud and confident? Knows the words etc but never gets a solo bit and the same two or three always get the main ones. I also don't see why a large role can't be split half way through.

Itsallfuckery
But why does it seem to only be certain children who are needing to develop this skill?
Who said that? All children need to develop it.

Children who get picked for everything at school do not go through life without challenge, adversity, trauma, tragedy, stress etc their life - except those who are mollycoddled or protected from experiencing these aspects of life by poor parents. Sure enough, if they are, they're just as likely to be the fall-apart graduates in the workplace as those who were never picked but whose parents go running to the teacher thinking their child should have lines in the school play just because they want them.

ifyoucantstandtheheat
many quiet children can handle being given lines in school plays. If they are never given the chance to do so then it does nothing but damage confidence.

You keep saying it damages confidence. No it doesn't. If your child's confidence is damaged by simply not being given lines in school plays you have far bigger problems to worry about with the emotional strength and resilience of your child! Millions of children didn't get lines in their school play, it didn't damage their confidence!

There is no point in arguing with you about it as you clearly have a winner takes all mentality. Which is fine if your kids are confident.
So you're saying your perspective is based entirely on your own experience of having children who are not picked. My perspective is objective, whether my children are winners, get picked or not, or just shrug it off and get on with life.

As for the rest, well they can stay at the bottom of the heap
So if they don't get picked to read lines at school or in the school play, they're at the bottom of the heap? Dear god, I despair for your kids.

As for the rest, well they can stay at the bottom of the heap... Nice

Says the person called ifyoucantstandtheheat 😂

NeverTwerkNaked

Well penny I think the point is more that a primary school teacher is highly unlikely to be skilled at identifying natural talent in every single field.
Sometimes talent doesn’t show until it is given a chance.

You can bet the children who attend drama group after school or weekends will be more confident, better speakers, better dancers than those who don’t.

Same for sports - those who attend football/rugby training on weekends will have an idea of how to kick a ball and has learnt about contact and spatial aweness.

What about the well mannered, well behaved children? They have a better chance of becoming prefects as they are good role models. Or should the clown of the class who is regularly sent out of class because he is disruptive get to be a prefect because, you know, all children should be given the same opportunities.

Or the child who is way behind his peer group in lessons- should s/he be put forward to represent the school in academic awards?

Obviously teachers are going to choose pupils who are best suited for their drama roles, school sports teams, prefects, academic awards etc

I always find it funny that children who have no interest in performing arts suddenly have to be given the star role in their school production - because that bratty child who attends costly, intense Drama/Singing/Dance classes as well as singing and dance competition (and wins) gets a big part every year

If a child has no talent in the drama stakes teachers usually choose the kids who have big personalities and are naturally funny. They are much more entertaining than shy, quiet children who, at best, will mumble their lines. At worst will be overwhelmed with an audience and become upset.

I am sure auditions will have been held even if not on the scale of X factor auditions. Plus teachers know the children in their class, therefore, will have a good knowledge of those who are most suitable and those who run the risk of crumbling and having their confidence rocked.

All children get a role in school productions whether it be Mary (not the best role tbh but usually given to a quiet child as Mary doesn’t usually have a speaking part) or whether they are part of the choir.

Parents should be telling their children that every role is important as without a chorus there would be no production. Give the kids a chance and stop coveting the main roles year after year. By the end of primary most children will have had at least one line to say whether it be at nativity or assembly. And many will be representing their school at sports events.

But you are comparing sporting acheiivements to having a voice . Having a voice is an essential life skill being good at football is not! Can you really not see the difference? Good for you that you feel that a child not being given a voice is acceptable . Teachers can do so much that is positive for young children by empowering quiet children.

They feel like they are bottom of the heap because they are ignored. I’m not saying I think they are!

And again I have not gone running to a teacher. Good teachers understand that developing the whole child is part of their role

Some children need to be encouraged to become confident that is the job of a teacher
Really? Why isn't it the job of the parent?

The thing is, why can't your child ask for a speaking part? If they want one that badly and have the confidence? When I was at school, for the most part, the same kids got picked for the same things each year. But you know why? Because they were the ones who wanted to do then, who asked to do them, who put themselves forward for them, who were better at them.

You're telling your child "yes you're too special to be 3rd sheep or 2nd tree, but someone else isn't". What if all the parents did that, there'd be no bloody sheep or spear holders or trees or whatever "boring" position there may be.

Plus, a 6 year old has barely started school, it's not like this has been going on for years. I'm sorry, it just sounds very bratty (as a parent, not the child).

ifyoucantstandtheheat
But you are comparing sporting acheiivements to having a voice. Having a voice is an essential life skill

What is all this having a voice nonsense? Your child has a voice. They use it throughout the day. Being picked for the play or being asked to read lines isn't being given a voice, it's merely being asked to act or read out loud. Some of my most painful and utterly boring times at school were being made to listen to other kids destroy Shakespeare or even their own words by being asked by the teacher to read out loud.

Good for you that you feel that a child not being given a voice is acceptable
Is your child gagged at school? Are they never allowed to voice their opinion? Are they told they must never utter a word or express any feeling? No? Then they have a voice. Can't comment on the false motivation in me which you have just fabricated, because, you know, you've just fabricated it.

They feel like they are bottom of the heap because they are ignored.
Like I have said repeatedly, if feeling like they are the bottom of the heap is a child's reaction to not being picked, then they lack resilience. Many other children do not have this reaction, do you understand? Millions of children through the generations have not been picked and do not fall apart, do not "feel like they are bottom of the heap", and do not have parents who encourage such a poor reaction. So the answer is not to "rescue" them or mollycoddle them such that they don't have to cope with such challenges, the answer is to develop resilience in them such that they can cope with this.

So stupid of teachers to not give ALL the children a line. ... Anyone could make up a few extra lines! All they need to do if the script hasn't enough parts is to add things like "Here they come! Look everyone, it's the three kings!" and so forth

It isn't necessarily that easy. I do it all the time. I pull scripts to bits trying to get as many speaking parts as possible out of them. This year I've managed to get speaking at least one line for 42 out of the 55 Year 4 children in the Year 3/4 musical but couldn't manage any more. Year 3 are all chorus.

It wasn't difficult to make the lines up (or reassign them from big parts if it worked in context) ... BUT it's illegal

I'm happy to take that risk. But I know many other drama teachers who aren't and who produce scripts exactly as written - and I really can't blame them for that. They're using the script fairly and within the law. I'm not.

It's also really hard to find a balance between bringing on talented children and giving them enough to put on scholarship applications etc and supporting and encouraging children who aren't talented yet or who just want a bit more confidence and opportunity. I do it by putting on many different shows a year, some for all ages and some just for one class, so that there are some which are very selective and high quality and others where everyone has a decent size speaking part and they don't even have to learn the lines if they struggle. Every child I teach from age 3 to age 13 appears on stage at least once a year and every child from age 8 or 9 to age 13 has a speaking part in at least one play at least once a year.

But I'm a specialist teacher with the time, resources, budget and support to do that.

For a primary school which only does one play a year - well, I imagine fairness is impossible.

👏👏👏 Manic!

The voice of reason!

Is it just school productions little Charlie has to be given a lead role or does little Charlie’s mother demand he be captain of the school football team and be presented with a Well Done for sitting nicely award every week too??

Well, this I have the opposite problem - a very confident boy, contributes ideas and enthusiasm to class discussions etc - is absolutely adamant he doesn't want to participate at all, let alone have a speaking part. He's really annoyed that he has to be a goat in particular, no idea why though. We've told him it's not negotiable, he can't opt out, he's been allocated a non speaking role as a goat, he could have chosen to go for one of the other parts but chose not to and we're chivvying him along that it'll be fun. I told him we all have to do things we don't like sometimes and it's an important lesson in life. I wish he'd pushed himself out of his comfort zone, but it's his decision ultimately. I can get away with responding to him like this precisely because he's confident and resilient in other ways though.

I volunteer at DD's school helping with a drama production. I also coach rugby.

With the drama every child will get a part which includes at least one line. It is never too young IMO for them to learn important skills such as cues, projection, learning lines.

In rugby everybody doesn't get a chance. Everyone is welcome to train but we pick the most competent, because it is a competitive sport.

flowerpot there are plenty of reasons that children do not have a voice. I have one with ASD and one on the pathway to diagnosis, she doesn't speak up in class and is in a social nuture group for this very reason.

Enabling children to say just one line will give them confidence.

Of course not every child can have the same part but when year after year the same kids are picked (often not for reasons of talent but more likely perceived social standing of their parents from my experience) how is my child going to develop confidence.

It is the role of schools to develop the whole child.

Giving them confidence to speak publically is much more important than giving them equality of sporting chances.

By the time they are at high school of course it will be down to talent. I'm talking about nuturing young children. Good teachers will do this.

Enabling children to say just one line will give them confidence

Agree with this so much

thanks Jacques

Ifyoucantstandtbeheat

You say your dc won’t speak up in class. How on earth do you think standing in a stage in front of a hall full of people and speaking will give her confidence??

It’s a big ask of someone who has little confidence and is unable to speak in class!

If you really think speaking lines on a stage in front of others is what your child needs enrol her in a drama group and see how long she lasts. She will either be too uncomfortable to perform or she will gain in confidence. Until you try you won’t know.

But ultimately it’s parents who should be providing confidence boosting activities.

ifyoucantstandtheheat

there are plenty of reasons that children do not have a voice. I have one with ASD and one on the pathway to diagnosis, she doesn't speak up in class and is in a social nuture group for this very reason.
So your child is on the pathway for ASD diagnosis and does not speak up in class. The school play is not a treatment platform.

Enabling children to say just one line will give them confidence.
You keep saying this. No it doesn't.

when year after year the same kids are picked (often not for reasons of talent but more likely perceived social standing of their parents from my experience)
That shouldn't be happening, of course.

how is my child going to develop confidence.
Via actions that develop resilience, which you previously wrote should come later. e.g. encouraging independence, developing resilience (again!), praise where it is due, setting goals, don't interfere when they are faced with challenging situations - let them develop the confidence to deal with them.

It is the role of schools to develop the whole child.
No, that's your job. The role of school is to support your job in areas and to inspire and develop knowledge.

I do get your disappointment but you can't always have it your own way. Use it as a learning exercise, tell him he should try hard to speak up in class role plays etc (which is different from being the noisy naughty one) to show teacher what he can do. Also I agree with everyone else that it is highly unlikely he will be doing nothing in the play. In my eight years of school plays (in 2 different schools) there have always beenare dancers, singers, percussion players and plenty more as well as the kids with a speaking part. Tell him he will be an important part of the show, and you will be proud of him if he tries his best to be enthusiastic with the songs etc but not if he sits there sulking because he didn't get a main part.

And maybe next time you speak to his teacher at parent's evening say you think he is more confident than he appears and can she give him opportunities to speak in public. In our school they all do little presentations to the class through the year. This must give the teachers an idea of which kids are capable of speaking loud and confident on a stage. I've been to shows where everyone has a line and they are excruciating and dull because you can't hear half of them and probably lots of the kids don't even want to do it.

Why wouldn’t you me tion it to the teacher of your DS is upset?
In our play all children have lines. Not loads but everyone a bit. Seems doable.

I’m just reading some of the replies. Yes, ine line can give a bit of confidence. They’ll be having weeks of rehearsals too and maybe the final rehearsal in front of smaller crowd like just KS1 - that’s how they do it at our school.