To ask for tangible benefits of Brexit?

[RiskIt4Biscuit]

Some politicians are saying that we're all brexiteers now.

But I can't actually think of any tangible benefits of Brexit, and I think as a brexiteer, I should be able to list at least 3.

So how is Brexit going to make our lives better?

Look I'm not arguing that Brexit will make things worse not better for almost everyone. And the poor will still be bottom of the pile.

I just hate the sneering from people who have little grasp of the realities many people face. If you are being turned down for a crappy care job because the agency only employs Eastern European people, then frankly, you don't give a fuck about corporation tax rates.

And I honestly believe that the agenda is to turn the uk into one massive deregulated Monaco like playground for the super rich. And to hell with the vast majority of us.

ghostof
The IFS has covered the issue, as has the Grauniad and the BBC.
Its a particular problem in the food packing and agriculture sectors.
Hence why their bosses are now squealing for "exemptions" so they can keep getting their staff who are paid as little as £3 an hour.

BUT
If the UK had stricter laws about agency workers rights (as is common elsewhere in the EU) it would not be an issue.
so its another problem that comes from Whitehall not Brussels

Talkin

I'm a remainer fully aware of the EU taking the blame for problems caused by British gov.

If you are being turned down for a crappy care job because the agency only employs Eastern European people, then frankly, you don't give a fuck about corporation tax rates.
You should.

Because if you voted for Brexit without reading and understanding the question ,
those of us who did understand the question and its implications
cannot be expected to be sympathetic when the chickens come home to roost.

Ghost
The Economist has also discussed the faults in the posted workers directive. It is a significant issue but one that is poorly understood - as evidenced by Tinkly's post.

What is the point in Parliament having a vote on the 'deal'?
Do you not believe in Parliamentary democracy?

If Parliament doesn't like it and it is sent back to Brussels are the EU really going to give us anything more just because MP's have stamped their feet, no of course not.

My understanding was that any leave process had to be in accord with our constitutional requirements. Since we have a Parliamentary democracy, if the MPs & Lords say no, then the EU should be amenable to our renegotiating.

So either MP's accept the EU deal negotiated or we take the WTO deal.

I gather this does not apply to aviation. The crunch will come for this sooner than March 2019 as airlines work out their timetables months in advance. It would be a brave soul who bought tickets not knowing whether the flights would be able to go ahead.

Do WTA agreements cover those presently covered by Euratom? If not, what happens to certain cancer treatments?

Ta1kin But this is the point I am making.

Most people are not accountants. They probably haven't even heard of Corporation Tax. They are not looking at the wider economic picture; they aren't educated enough to do that. They voted Brexit because their day to day lives are made more difficult by immigration. Not even because they are racist.

I just hate the sneering from people who have little grasp of the realities many people face

Meh, in the hierarchy of whose worse I would say it's those who lied and encouraged people to act against their own interests and those very many wealthy brexiteers who don't give a shit.

They voted Brexit because their day to day lives are made more difficult by immigration
Which is bollocks
because without immigrants the NHS would have collapsed decades ago
among many other sectors that have been utterly reliant on bringing workers from outside because the UK birth rate has been below replacement since the 60's

They voted Brexit because their day to day lives are made more difficult by immigration.

And yet most leave voting areas have very little immigration. Sunderland, for example, is I believe 98% White British. The whole "Johnny Foreigner stole my job" mantra is a load of fear mongering, ignorant, hate filled bollocks.

The areas with the highest immigration, like London, voted Remain, while areas which have little immigration, like Cornwall and the North East voted Leave. So how do immigrants in London make peoples' daily lives more difficult in Sunderland and Redruth, just picking two places at random?

Cross post.

I'm a strong remainer. I noticed that the referendum gave nearly everyone in the country (remainers and leavers alike) the super power of knowing exactly what is going to happen in the future. I can't argue too much about what might happen because I really don't know.

What I do know is that things haven't been going well so far and Britain seems much more divided and threatening than it ever has before. I'm just going to wait and see what happens now because if I keep on saying "Brexit will be a disaster" then the leavers are just going to blame everyone but themselves for "talking down the economy".

My relatives live in an area with not that many immigrants compared to somewhere like London. But it is an area of economic deprivation, pretty much like Sunderland I guess. So lots of people chasing very few jobs. And apparently many of those jobs sewn up by foreign employing agencies. The Brexit vote very much correlates to economic deprivation.

Top class sneering by the way Ghost.

The Brexit vote very much correlates to economic deprivation.

Deprivation brought about by the destruction of british industry, privitisation since the 1980's. All caused by British governments.

Tinkly
But the economic problems in Cornwall will be made worse by Brexit, not better.
Hence why the farming and tourism and every other business group there are trying to get "opt outs" to undo the damage they realise they have done.

Ta1kin I'm not arguing with you about that. I also think that things will get worse. As I said I voted remain.

But I can see that people voted Brexit because they wanted to improve their lives. Many people have been having it pretty shit in our lovely EC UK. Presumably the sneerers have been having it good and are unable to look beyond their own experience.

Ghost. I'm not arguing about our shambolic government either. But the narrative people get from the press has blamed Europe for a long, long time. Quite honestly the remaines were very complacent about stating their case.

Ah yes - the Press

The Barclay Brothers - tax dodging weirdos who make extensive use of offshore finance to avoid paying their dues.

Lord Rothermere - "hereditary" non dom who makes extensive use of offshore finance to avoid paying his dues

Rupert Murdoch - passport jumping media git who makes extensive use of offshore finance to avoid paying his dues.

Richard Desmond - pornographer who makes extensive use of offshore finance to avoid paying his dues.

Evgeny Lebvedev - hereditary oligarch who uses his UK newspaper to launder Russian money into offshore finance

I think there might be a pattern here

Presumably the sneerers

I think that the idea of sneering is wide of the mark. It is a question of what is best for our future.

Well, we'll still have to follow EU law for an awful lot of things - except for human right laws so I guess if you're an employer who wants to have people working dangerously long hours then you can do that.
And we might all lose weight during the period where we hit import issues. Oh and if you like chlorine in your food then you'll be happy....
Oh and we'll all get to rediscover the blitz spirit?

Quite honestly the remaines were very complacent about stating their case.

Second time I've heard this today. Sounds remarkably like an attempt to shift the blame of Brexit onto remain voters. Certainly come along way since "you lost, suck it up". What an appallingly embarrassing thing Brexit is.

The Brexit vote very much correlates to economic deprivation

I thought the biggest determinate were not income but age and education.

Sneering is not nice but hey, if people voted deliberately and mindfully against their and my self-interest then I don't think much of them.

Ghost
The Brexit vote is in fact a damning indictment of our political and educational systems.
Most of the politicians and wonks who set up the vote went to naice selective schools with motivated cosmopolitan parents.
They have no comprehension about the reality of NMW life and being persistently in debt.
The threats of Brexit were obvious to them.
It did not occur to them that it was not the same everywhere.

Before the vote I contacted the remain campaign several times to ask what they were going to do to explain things in a non London, non rich, non globetrotting way.
They did not have the courtesy to reply to me, let alone engage.
Their arrogance was awful.
So the vote was lost.

Do you think the remainers did a good job of stating their case then Ghost? I honestly think the majority of people didn't have much of a clue either way what they were voting for.