To ask for tangible benefits of Brexit?

[RiskIt4Biscuit]

Some politicians are saying that we're all brexiteers now.

But I can't actually think of any tangible benefits of Brexit, and I think as a brexiteer, I should be able to list at least 3.

So how is Brexit going to make our lives better?

Switzerland shares a land border with the EU (that is therefore an external border) and with Norway, and neither are part of the customs union.

The EU can be creative - when it wants to be.

Noway pay the EU. Norway/Switzerland obliged to adopt EU policy. They have no MEP's thus no say. Try selling that to Brexiteers.

I have a really powerful vacuum already; and its certainly not a Dyson.

Noway pay the EU. Norway/Switzerland obliged to adopt EU policy. They have no MEP's thus no say. Try selling that to Brexiteers.

I don't see an offer on the table...

The rules were clear and must be adhered to. Otherwise mayhem.

Only if you are in the EU, which we won’t be.

Some posters seem to think we should all have voted remain simply because the EU is the Hotel California.

We’ve had freedom of movement between UK (including NI) since before the EU even existed, but apparently that doesn’t count because of EU rules we have voted against being subject to?

habenero20

you cited Swiss/Norway has an example of EU being "flexible". Hard brexiteers won't do flexible otherwise they'd have to concede Brexit and NI are incompatible.

Nearly 18 months after the referendum and I'm still yet to see a convincing pro Brexit argument. Leavers' tactics seem just to involve accusing Remainers of moaning. We're all totally fucked.

We’ve had freedom of movement between UK (including NI) since before the EU even existed, but apparently that doesn’t count because of EU rules we have voted against being subject to?

There were previously border/customs checks. A return to this would damage business, risk the Good Friday Agreement and cost a fortune to implement.

the irish border clearly isn't the top priority for either party

It's fair to say that the EU is prioritising its long term survival over the Irish border by not compromising on the rules that holds it together, yes.

I don't think any reasonable person could blame them. And at least, they have been clear and consistent from the get go about their position. The UK on the other hand is engaging in some ridiculous doublethink whereby they want to take back control of their borders but apparently not that border (according to you) which is a complete nonsense of a position, because it's like triple bolting the front door while leaving the back one wide open.

there is only one party putting conditions on the irish border.

This is nonsense. The UK is putting conditions on the Irish border by virtue of the choices it's making. It may say something else, but it's actions on immigration have clear and obvious consequences for the Irish border.

what's amazing to me is how the EU has painted this situation as the UK's fault, and everyone is falling for it.

Well of course it's the UK's fault. Again, is this some kind of Orwellian shit you're pulling? Not only did they ask for the divorce, but they also jumped head first into the referendum without any kind of plan for a leave outcome. A responsible approach would have involved talks/negotiations with the ROI long before the referendum itself to put a contingency plan in place.

This will certainly require creative thinking, but I think finger wagging and pointing is very unlikely to help.

I'm speaking as someone who grew up on the NI/ROI border and whose extended family still lives there. I know how hard won that peace was. I know how easily we could return to violence. And I know what kind of impact that would have on peoples lives and livelihoods. Trust me, I will be doing more than pointing fingers if the border turns nasty again.

To cross the border from a non EU country to an EU country
(eg Russia into Poland or Turkey into Bulgaria) requires full customs checks.

Just think what fun this will be with a border that many people currently cross multiple times a day. Or for those who live in one jurisdiction and work in another (and there are thousands in this position).

The idea its all the UKs fault is nonsense. When you divorce, both parents are responsible for sorting out what happens with the children. One doesn't stand back and say, well its all their fault.

The UK don't want a ROI/NI border.
The ROI don't want a ROI/NI border.
NI does't want a ROI/NI border.
The EU say they dont want a ROI/NI border.

So lets just not have a border and if the EU try to impose one. Then on their head's be it.

I don't think any reasonable person could blame them. And at least, they have been clear and consistent from the get go about their position.

I am pretty reasonable. I blame them. They are consistent because of course they don't have a population to answer to.

This is nonsense. The UK is putting conditions on the Irish border by virtue of the choices it's making.

really, it's very simple.

party 1: I want A no matter what our deal is. we will never put a condition on A.

party 2: A happens only if...

who is putting the conditions on A? Your language has now changed to "by virtue of its choices". there is only one party putting conditions on the border. They (the EU) have good reasons for it (we agree on that), but they are still the ones with the conditions. It's can't be more clear.

Not only did they ask for the divorce, but they also jumped head first into the referendum without any kind of plan for a leave outcome.

interesting. You have seen how difficult negotiations are. The EU itself refused to negotiate until article 50 was invoked. So, the Tories were supposed to have negotiated, among themselves (?), and brought some proposal to us? how credible would that have been?

I know how easily we could return to violence. And I know what kind of impact that would have on peoples lives and livelihoods. Trust me, I will be doing more than pointing fingers if the border turns nasty again.

tell the people in the driver's seat. Not that they would care. The european project is too important to sacrifice.

The UK don't want a ROI/NI border.

Well then they can't control their EU immigration. Remember the point about not being able to have their cake and eat it too?

I mean I'm all for a (very) soft brexit if that's what you mean, but somehow I doubt it.

Julie

I must have imagined the Brexit campaign I'm sure controlling borders was metioned once or twice.

The UK don't want a ROI/NI border.
The ROI don't want a ROI/NI border.
NI does't want a ROI/NI border.
The EU say they dont want a ROI/NI border.

Brexit: Border in the Irish Sea a red line for DUP, says Arlene Foster

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-border-in-the-irish-sea-a-red-line-for-dup-says-arlene-foster-36195738.html

So ... reading these comments, I see that powerful vacs is being cited as a pro-Brexit consideration. Woo hoo. Anything else?

wason
We’ve had freedom of movement between UK (including NI) since before the EU even existed, but apparently that doesn’t count because of EU rules we have voted against being subject to?
Sorry, what ?
The Ulster / Eire border was VERY heavily fortified right through the 70's with checkpoints and goodness knows what else
Free movement was part of the Good Friday agreement, not before.

We wanted to control the swarm of illegal migrants coming in from The Jungle and from Eastern Europe. We dont have an immigration problem with ROI.

habenero either the UK wants control of its borders or it doesn't. And if it wants control, then Ireland has to be a part of that, otherwise it's total nonsense.

We dont have an immigration problem with ROI.

Leaving aside the offensive language, all those Eastern European immigrants will have no problem at all getting into ROI. So how are we going to stop them crossing a non existent NI border?

Powerful vacs, bendy bananas, I think there was also a reasonably legit point about sanpro.

That's all I've got.

Leavers' tactics seem just to involve accusing Remainers of moaning

Yep before the referendum anyone who was concerned about immigration was shut down as being racist.

Now anyone who is pro-remain is shut down as being anti-democratic, why don't you go and live in North Korea etc.

If we allowed debate in this country, even if we don't like what the other person is saying, we wouldn't be in this mess. People have a right to express their views.

And if it wants control, then Ireland has to be a part of that, otherwise it's total nonsense

No it isn't, we're both islands and I really can't see there's going to be a huge problem with either contraband or illegal immigrants on the inner Irish border. There is no good reason to introduce a hard border.

The EU itself refused to negotiate until article 50 was invoked.

But you would have known that before the referendum. It was up to UK to trigger A50.

The european project is too important to sacrifice.

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/803206/Brexit-news-Michel-Barnier-addresses-Irish-Parliament-EU-demands-UK

www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/theresa-may-declines-invitation-to-address-irish-parliament-35394556.html

only one side gives a toss.

We wanted to control the swarm of illegal migrants coming in from The Jungle and from Eastern Europe.

Well, doh, leaving the EU is going to do nothing to control illegal migrants. The clue is in the word “illegal”.

The Eastern European immigrants aren't illegal, they're allowed to be in Ireland.

Controlling borders does not mean we have to build a wall everywhere. We can choose to not have one in NI. That's what control is, the ability to act upon our free will.

Eastern European immigrants might come in via ROI, but they wont be able to work legally, get houses, healthcare, benefits and if caught imprisoned/deported.

And most residents of NI have a right to an Irish passport. Which is also an EU passport.

So we have a territory full of EU citizens, next to a territory - full of EU citizens. Forgive me if I cannot see the issue with the NI border.