To ask for tangible benefits of Brexit?

[RiskIt4Biscuit]

Some politicians are saying that we're all brexiteers now.

But I can't actually think of any tangible benefits of Brexit, and I think as a brexiteer, I should be able to list at least 3.

So how is Brexit going to make our lives better?

And both the EU and Ireland are trying to avoid a hard border

one catch though: neither the EU nor Ireland have a responsibility to the UK people to deal with the Brexit referendum. The UK government does. The EU's general position on these matters is to tell national governments to disregard the outcome of referenda, but the entire trouble is that the UK government isn't doing that this time.

So to summarise ... bugger all really. Or have I missed something huge?

To summarise- we might get rid of some east Europeans (without being bigoted of course)

Funny how the EFTA / EEA model that was being touted pre-Referendum by Leave campaigners and which would solve the NI border issue suddenly became unpalatable after the (advisory) vote.

We’ll be able to get rid of the tampon tax, which was introduced and continues to be enforced by the EU.

I could list you way more but I think that’s a pretty good one.

AgnesSkinner The government hasn't done it because it would mean having a huge database of every non-British EU citizen living in the UK (and we all know that the government hasn't had much luck with IT systems).

we are absolutely obliged to do that, especially with in work benefits.
EU law allows member states to deport immigrants from other EU countries if they have become a burden on that country's welfare system. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36449974

EU law allows member states to deport immigrants from other EU countries if they have become a burden on that country's welfare system.

I'll assume you didn't read the link you posted, because it doesn't at all address what I said.

Whatever deal we have, we want a borderless Ireland.

Again, not true. The UK's position is 'first and foremost we want to control our borders'. And from that point a borderless Ireland is pie in the sky.

It's very simple. The EU is and always has been clear that X (single market) is not possible without Y (freedom of movement). UK wants out of Y. So it must also give up X. X has big consequences for Northern Ireland. The UK is in no position to say that actually, it really wants X too and it's the EU that's causing the problems for NI. The rules were clear and must be adhered to. Otherwise mayhem.

I'll assume you didn't read the link you posted, because it doesn't at all address what I said.

I did read it.

The government hasn't done it because it would mean having a huge database of every non-British EU citizen living in the UK (and we all know that the government hasn't had much luck with IT systems).

If the UK is doing away with the current system of free movement of workers then it will need to set up a new system to cover the new arrangements though?

It's very simple.

It really is very simple. The EU has it's policies, restrictions, rules etc etc etc and the UK knows what these are. Given the EU's position, the UK ought to have known (notice, I am entirely conceding this point) that the EU would insist on the border. We both agree on that.

Where we disagree is on who is insisting on the existence of the border. It's absolutely clear who is doing that, and its not the UK.

I did read it.

perhaps then you can explain how that addresses my point. If you are in work, and for example need housing benefit, you can access that.

habenero my position is that the UK's desire for a borderless Ireland is meaningless when they a) knew the rules and b) wanted something that precluded that even more.

Now that the Uk are brexiting, the EU require them to play by the rules. But the EU wanted no change at all to the status quo at all, which included a border less Ireland.

So I'd argue the EU's desire for a borderless Ireland is more sincere than the UK's. It's hands are tied by the position the UK has taken.

I don't recall any referendum on do you want to leave the Single Market and the Customs Union? As has already been mentioned Leave were promising this before the vote.

How does UK "control our borders" if they don't mean the Irish border, too.

Pity that Norn didn't vote for this Fiasco, but I guess they get to suck it up like the rest of us Remainers.

I love all the "kick the buggers out" shite.
I have a UK passport now so cannot easily be kicked out
but as a first generation economic migrant have taken the time to read the statistics about economic activity.

UK born Brits claim benefits at six times the rate of immigrants
ie us forriners subsidise you natives BIG TIME

Once the forriners are kicked out, who will pay for the Brits ?

Border in Ireland after Brexit

It is really incredibly simple to visualise :

To cross the border from a non EU country to an EU country
(eg Russia into Poland or Turkey into Bulgaria)
requires full customs checks.

Once the UK is not in the EU, the border has to match all other external EU borders.

The only way to avoid that is to stay in the Customs Union in some version.

my position is that the UK's desire for a borderless Ireland is meaningless when they a) knew the rules and b) wanted something that precluded that even more.

that's a peculiar point of view. the irish border clearly isn't the top priority for either party. you are talking as if those rules came down from mount sinai and the EU has no control over them. They make the rules!

you are confusing with their position making sense with they have no control over the situation. there is only one party putting conditions on the irish border.

what's amazing to me is how the EU has painted this situation as the UK's fault, and everyone is falling for it.

My position, for what it's worth, is that this is a complicated problem. The EU's position is understandable (given their constraints), as is the UK's (given their constraints), as is ROI's. This will certainly require creative thinking, but I think finger wagging and pointing is very unlikely to help.

what's amazing to me is how the EU has painted this situation as the UK's fault, and everyone is falling for it.
How is it not the UK's fault.
The UK filed for divorce. The EU was happy to stay married.

there is only one party putting conditions on the irish border.

Brexiteers want to take back control of borders. I assume this means the only land border. That would mean damaging NI businesses that trade with the Republic and risking the Good Friday Agreement. A soft border would mean EU citizens entering NI from the Republic. Whole thing is a paradox brought about by the UK.

This will certainly require creative thinking

No sign of that from David Davies who stuttered his way through an interview on Sunday saying they were still looking for solutions to NI. 18 months after the referendum..

Once the UK is not in the EU, the border has to match all other external EU borders.

the EU has in the past shown itself to be quite flexible.

Switzerland shares a land border with the EU (that is therefore an external border) and with Norway, and neither are part of the customs union.

The EU can be creative - when it wants to be.

The EU has also compromised with Switzerland on free movement - Switzerland can now, legally, prefer it's own citizens and residents for employment.

My mum's only reason for passionately voting leave was because of the EU rule on bendy bananas. I hope we'll at least get bendy bananas back. Even if everything else goes to shit.

No sign of that from David Davies

no argument there. I don't have much faith in him.

I'm hoping we'll be able to have powerful vacuum cleaners again.

Can't think of anything else.

We'll get more powerful vacum cleaners and James Dyson will lobby for a reduction in corporation tax as well as a reduction in workers' rights.

Win win...