Topshop gender neutral changing rooms part 2

[BahHumbygge]

Part 1 here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3080957-To-alert-you-to-the-fact-that-Topshop-just-changed-its-policy-to-let-men-into-the-womens-changing-rooms

I wouldn't really say being aware of the dangers males (as a class) pose to females (as a class) is 'man hating' either. But each to their own I guess.

NAMALT of course. But enough are.

www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/877876/Stop-pandering-to-tiny-transgender-lobby

If your 'intersectional feminism' centres the desires of men but excludes women from certain religious groups, then how is it feminism?

What is the problem with making the mens gender neutral and keeping the womens for biological women only?

@BatShite

"The dangers of males..."

See, I wonder that people will see threads like this and think AWALT.

grey, I see you accidentally left out Bat's parenthetic "as a class" and her "NAMALT" clarifications. Which is unfortunate, as it rather changes the meaning of your quote, which I'm sure was not your intention.

To reiterate: 90% of prisoners incarcerated for violent crimes are male, and 98% of prisoners incarcerated for sexual offences are male.

Again, NAMALT. But you'd have to have been living under a rock not to have noticed the Harvey Weinstein scandal, the photographer at Vogue, the Westminster sexual harrassment scandal. Many of us (myself, for instance) have the good luck to work in professional workplaces with good standards of behaviour, but not everyone is that lucky. And for the women (and some men) who aren't that lucky, their working lives are hell. And the perpetrators are... you guessed it. Men. Not all of them. But enough of them to create a totally toxic environment in some workplaces.

This is about a minority bullying folk to bend to their every whim. They have found a voice and support and demand that everyone falls in line with their demands. As most are men - Women are taking the brunt of it. The input from transactivists in this twitter thread on women’s experience of sexual assault shows how little regard they have for women and their experiences. As a woman of 50yrsvold who has been harrassed and sexually assaulted more times than i can remember, as a mother - i say fuck no way am i bending down to these bullies.

mobile.twitter.com/JenAshleyWright/status/928740631035437057

mobile.twitter.com/JenAshleyWright/status/928740631035437057

See, I wonder that people will see threads like this and think AWALT.

AWAL what? Aware that males (as a class) are a danger to females (as a class)?

I would hope that all women are aware of that. The ones who are not aware, appear to be backing arguments to make other women less safe. I would like to think this is out of ignorance of statistics and real life, rather than them knowing the dangers and not giving a shiney shite anyway.

Can I say I'm black?

Or, more to the point, can anyone say you're not ????

bambambini

That tweet has already been retweeted over 90,000 times.

The number of men on there who are utterly shocked is so depressing.

It’s quite true when people say that violence against women is so normalised that no one even notices it.

Some fool was genuinely asking what was wrong with it?

The disconnect is painful to watch.

Datun.

There was a huge derail by transactivists having a go for excluding transfolk/nb Etc. It was gobsmackingly demanding and self centered. The fool has since protected (disappeared) their tweets - unfortunately

A wonderful open letter to Topshop by Jeni Harvey:
medium.com/@GappyTales/an-open-letter-to-topshop-d7351ef932ab

sagamartha - There were 50 gender recognition certifcates in the first quarter of this year. Just 50. I wonder how many of those people didn't have surgery and were stil given a GRC. Such certificates are not handed out easily and a lot of evidence is needed to provide such a certificate.

According to UK Trans Info's guide to gender recognition, If you haven’t had any surgery then the report must explain the reason why. This could be because you are on a waiting list, because you aren’t medically able, because you are waiting for improvements in surgical techniques, because you don’t feel the need for surgery or for any other reasons, but an explanation must be given.

Gires say, The GRP is definitely minded to grant applications, wherever legally possible, which is why directions are given rather than making final decisions which might not be in favour of the applicant. So despite the high rate of requests for further information very few applications actually fail outright.

BTW, there were 70 granted in the second quarter of this year.

I've seen a couple of people say it's expensive. I don't think it is really. It's £140 with a fee waiver for those on a low income. It's more expensive than getting a passport but you don't need to renew it every 10 years and there's no fee waiver for passports. It's absolute peanuts compared with family visa fees, most of which need renewing every 5 years, and which again have no fee waivers except in a few extreme circumstances.

've seen a couple of people say it's expensive

It's expensive if you haven't got £140.

I recommend everyone ead the link what BetsyM00 posted, fantastic letter by that writer.

read, not ead.

It's expensive if you haven't got £140.

There is a fee waiver for those on low income.

The post by MyCatsareKitKats is one of the most important I have ever read on MN.

How might society get you heard MyCats?

People like Travis and other prominent trans activists who behave like this and act in such an entitled way are causing issues for those trans people who just want to live their lives without bothering people and who just want to slip under the radar. The ones who are undergoing transition and who do qualify for a GRC. The ones most people think of when the word 'trans' is mentioned.

I worry about a backlash against trans people as some people may not be able to separate the actions of such activists from the trans people who don't want to cause issues. The behaviour of such activists affects public perception and public attitudes towards a community that already has a lot to deal with.

When trans people who are thought of as 'traditional transsexuals' speak out and challenge such activists, they get verbal abuse and all the other behaviour that is also similar to the way they treat other people who challenge them. It makes standing up to such people very difficult when there is such a response.

People should read that letter.

Bloody brilliant letter by Jenni Harvey.

grey "It was about equality. I used to be proud to be a woman and fight for what I believed"

you don't believe in people being entitled to worry about their personal safety? Even in the current climate which shows the extent to which men manage to perv and just stay just the right side of the legal line?

Do you mind if I ask what you do believe feminism can do for women?

BetsyM00

WOW!! What a bloody letter. I’ve rarely read anything that absolutely nails it so well.

She had everything in there.

Reminding Topshop of their cultural importance, reminding them who their demographic is, pointing out the paedo best friend, the misogyny where one man’s complaint can change the policy. All of it.

But the real nail in the coffin was asking whether if any other man (judge, plumber) had posed as a 15-year-old girl with a see-through top and whose best mate calls little girls deviant and kinky, would they then still have changed their policy to allow him access to young girls on the basis of him telling them to sort their shit out!

Brava to that woman.

And the fact that that Alok clown was complacent enough to post his disgusting opinions online, just goes to show quite how confident he is.

He is living in a bubble fuelled by narcissism, sex and pornography, and he thinks everyone else is too.

BetsyM00

What a brilliant letter! Thank you for sharing.