The weird things that non parents say...

[Wiggles9408]

Just a general one, no malice intended but what are your experiences of the things that people without children have said to you in regards to parenting?

My examples are as follows (all in one day): dd is 6mo I went into work for a KIT day and a few of my colleagues that don’t have children (in amongst genuine lovely questions about dd) said the following ‘Babies seem easy to me now I’ve got a rabbit..’ and ‘so what’s it like?’ My answer ‘harder than I’d imagined’ the response ‘oh really? I just imagined you watching Disney films all day with a baby!’
And my favourite one EVER ‘I’d love to be getting paid to do nothing all day but watch Jeremy Kyle!’
I know they probably weren’t meant to come across so ummmm belittling but in my head I did have a few brash come backs but didn’t say anything just laughed it off. so anyone else had comments made that left them a little

Brasty as a baby I was put out in the garden to sleep lol 😊

Wombling heres the thread that "hasnt happened yet"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3084035-To-think-this-is-discrimination

Can I lighten the mood by telling you my lovely friend asked me the other day if my two year old was eating solids yet

I think actual MEN get tired, too, sometimes. Amazing.
It has been known to happen - especially when sleeping on a sofa and doing 3-hour feeds for a newborn.

I just laugh because they have no idea! I wish I had a pound for every stupid thing said to me when I go out and about - having twins definitely increases the stupid.

Regular comments are:
Ooh, twins! (Do you reckon?)
Are they twins? (No, I just found this one)
Double trouble
Ooh, buy one get one free (I bloody wish)
Are they natural? (No, they're synthetic)
Did you have a vaginal delivery? (Mind your own vagina)
How did you manage to have twins? (Sex twice is one night, obviously)
Rather you than me (gee, thanks)

I'm so jealous - you only have to do this once! (Nope, still doing it twice, just simultaneously)

At least they eat / sleep at the same time (Hahahhahahahahahshhaha are you fucking kidding me?)

Are they identical? (Yes apart from their hair, eye colour etc - even friends with one boy and one girl get this one!)

I would rather die than have twins (lovely!)

MarthaArthur sorry you experienced that, those people were clearly utter dicks.

However, they are right about the exhaustion. I used to work in insanely demanding jobs where there was no work life balance at all, working constantly, stretches of 18 hrs 7 days a week for several months a year. I also have ME that stopped me from working at all so I know fatigue better than most, and I've had years of insomnia where I wake up every 1.5 hours so I figured kids would be the same. Nothing can possibly prepare you for the exhaustion of children though - my twins are almost 14 months old and I haven't had a proper nights sleep in at least 18 months. Christ, for the last 12 months I haven't slept for more than 3 hours at a time, if I'm lucky and that's with my husband sharing the load. I'm a few percent more tired every day so I'm now on about -700% energy. Won't survive it much longer tbh. So yeah, I do understand why parents say that about tiredness because I had no bloody clue either (although I do roll my eyes a bit at the the exhaustion complaints of people with one baby sometimes - can't help it!)

Nothing can possibly prepare you for the exhaustion of children though

This makes me roll my eyes. Not all babies are the same, and whilst yours are twins, so more tiring, children aren't necessarily exhausting.

I have a baby. I sleep at least 7 hours a night unless I choose to stay up stupidly late. I sleep more and rest more than I ever have done. Some babies don't cry, some are difficult, but some are a doddle.

It's no more accurate to say that it's incomparably hard, as to say it's a doddle. It very much depends on the child, and what your body finds tiring.

Well, I roll my eyes right back at you. I think not being beyond exhausted as a new parent is highly unusual, it's great that you manage a lovely long unbroken sleep every night but that's hardly the norm.

In my experience, nothing CAN prepare you for the exhaustion of parenthood (even extremely exhausting work and medical condition) and the mums of singletons I know seem deeply exhausted too, but I've never had a singleton and I'm sure it is easier. Still, if someone is saying that to someone without kids, chances are they are saying it because they are breaking under the exhaustion. But sure, roll your eyes at them.

I was so exhausted a few months ago that I was hallucinating - full on hallucinating. Every tiny problem would make me weep hysterically and my muscles were so weak I couldn't lift a bottle of milk. Absolutely broken. Nothing ever prepared me for that. There's a reason they use sleep interruption and deprivation as a torture technique, coupled with loud constant noises.

The difference is, you're making huge sweeping generalisations about how parents feel, and I'm not.

You can say that you find it exhausting, and that many parents find it exhausting, but you shouldn't portray it as of your experience is universal.

I've been in tears many times with exhaustion. I've been exhausted to the point that that I've been hallucinating too. But not with a baby, with crazy hours from work and pregnancy that stopped me from sleeping. But I wouldn't say that nothing prepares you for the exhaustion of pregnancy because my experience isn't universal.

I find it naive and extremely irritating when people try to make out that parenting tiredness is some special kind of thing, and then try to minimise others tiredness. Tired is tired regardless of the cause. To make it seem otherwise is really over-egging it.

I met up with some friends recently that don't have children. I didn't have a brilliant night the night before, up 2 or 3 times, but I had a lot more sleep than my friend who has chronic insomnia, and my friend who just came off nights that nightm

And I didn't say I've ever had unbroken sleep, just that I sleep for about 7 hours a night. They are very different things.

We all have a different experience, ranging from the exhausting to the fine, and the 'most difficult thing ever' to a doddle. We really shouldn't generalise.

Just to add, when I've been absolutely on my knees with exhaustion from work in the past, and I've said how tired I've been, on several occasions 'friends' have rolled out the 'you don't know what tiredness is, you don't have kids' line.

Urgh

but I've never had a singleton and I'm sure it is easier

This comment by Tammy sums up this thread. Making confident assumptions about stuff you've never experienced, and assuming things about other people's experiences, and not entertaining the belief that you might be completely wrong.

(And to answer the specific point: depends on the singleton, depends on the twins, depends on the support available.)

FFS

Whatever.

Having one baby is obviously easier than having two babies, and having three babies is harder than having two, etc. That's not a generalisation, it's a fact.

Having one baby is obviously easier than having two babies, and having three babies is harder than having two, etc. That's not a generalisation, it's a fact.

It's an opinion. It depends on the babies, and the circumstances. You say yourself you've never had a singleton, so how would you know?

If you want to stealth boast about how easy having a baby is, try and accept the fact that you're massively fortunate and do so without throwing other parents under the bus.

And yeah, I do think "cry me a river" when people without kids or health issues tell me they're tired. Perhaps there are people out there who are genuinely less tired when they have a baby than they were before they had one, but that seems pretty unlikely.

Okay sure. It's definitely possible for it be more difficult to have one baby than to have two, even if they're "easy babies". I know a few women with triplets and their lives are infinitely harder and more exhausting than mine is with two, even based on workload and logistics alone, even though they have very "well behaved babies". I may not have had a singleton but I know plenty of women who've had twins and a singleton so I'll take their word for it.

I would agree it's dependant on the babies. My friend had twins the week before I had my DS. Her babies slept well, fed well and were no trouble. She has an ELCS which she recovered well and quickly from. Both babies were sleeping through by around 10 weeks. She was always able to get out and about, and back to normal relatively quickly.

I had my DS after a horribly traumatic birth for us both which took me months to recover from. He had dreadful silent reflux and another medical issue that meant he was on three different types of medicine by 16 weeks. He never slept as a newborn except for in my arms (this continued until he was about 9m) and by 3 months was so bottle averse he'd only dream feed. I couldn't get out and about because if I did I'd never have got him to sleep which I needed to do to feed him and get his medicine down him.

My friend had two easy babies at once. I'm sure she was exhausted as all new mums are but I'd have take two easy ones over one very, very difficult one any day!

Of course, they are all 19 months now - my DS is now super easy and she has two rampaging toddlers to manage. I've got the 'easier' end of the stick these days.

I'm sure anyone with magical unicorn babies of any quantity has an easier time than those with tough babies, but in general terms having two babies that need you and need lots of things is exhausting even if they are good feeders and sleepers.

I have a big circle of twin mum friends and I know only one that went near term. All of the others had their twins significantly prematurely, some as early as 28 weeks. 90% of the twins I know, at least one of them has significant health issues, has needed at least one surgery or procedure under GA, has an ongoing illness or issues associated with prematurity. At least half the mums needed emergency sections or hospitalisation after birth. One of mine was in nicu for two months, others have had nearly that long and one or two longer. The majority of us had severe SPD from early on, hyperemesis, GD then pre-eclampsia or other conditions more common in multiple pregnancies.

Dealing with all that for one baby is hard enough, when you have more than one the likelihood of difficulties for mum and babies increases, and dealing with all this with two babies is a logistical nightmare.

If you had two term babies who sleep through from the get go, stick to a schedule then wonderful (although there are still the additional logistical difficulties of having two babies at once) but with all the twin mums I've met through my sizeable local twin group, I don't know a single one with that scenario!

I just mentioned this thread to a couple of the mums I know who have twins and a singleton - they both found it pretty hilarious. One of them has boisterous 3 year old ID boys and a two month old boy, and even she with the added workload of toddler twins thought it was hilarious.

There are always exceptions to every rule, I'm sure someone out there has angelic quadruplets that are no bother and are easier to handle than my ravenous, sleep-allergic escape artists, but in the vast majority of cases it's only logical that the more babies you have, the more exhausting it is and the more work it is.

But if anyone wants to swap my twins for their singleton for a week, be my guest - you'll need to learn how to monitor blood sugars and give medications / react to results, but I can teach you that

And yeah, I do think "cry me a river" when people without kids or health issues tell me they're tired.

I absolutely agree with this. The degree of tiredness when you have babies is on another level. Obviously, some people have kids that sleep through from the get go and great for them, but the vast majority of parents are facing broken sleep for at least the first six months and that really takes its toll.

I have worked/do work in very demanding jobs including lots of long haul travel and I understand work tiredness, but the difference is that you do get to catch up on sleep eventually. You aren't literally working 168 hours a week.

Whereas you are on call for that if you're a parent (well between you).

It's the relentlessness of being woken multiple times a night and then up for the day almost certainly earlier than you'd like - over months and months - that's the killer.

Yeah I think it is the constantly broken sleep that does it. I thought it wouldn't be to different from having insomnia and waking up every couple of hours but there's a massive difference between wakinh up being woken up apparently! Besides, when my insane work hours were done I could sleep as much as I wanted / needed to. HAVENT got anyone to help with the boys besides my DH, they don't nap at the same time, they tag team us all night, they wake up before 5am and won't go back to sleep... even when my job and ME were at their worst it just doesn't compare. I envy anyone who has a different experience, but I don't think they're the majority!

And yeah, I do think "cry me a river" when people without kids or health issues tell me they're tired. Perhaps there are people out there who are genuinely less tired when they have a baby than they were before they had one, but that seems pretty unlikely.

I'm not sure whether it's arrogant or naive to think that just because it's not your experience, something isn't likely.

Do you not see that when someone is absolutely exhausted, then minimising that because they don't have children is actually pretty unpleasant.

I don't have a magical unicorn baby. I do get up in the night. But for me personally, work demands more of my sleep, more of my brain, and leaves me much more exhausted. It's no more a boast that my baby is easy, than you are boasting that you find work easy.

But also every parent is different. Some people are better on 4 hours sleep than others are on 8. Some the total amount is what counts, and wake ups don't matter. For others, it's the length of an uninterrupted block that counts. It's how that mat he's up with your baby, and then factoring in things like support that make a difference. It's not a matter of easy baby vs difficult baby.

No, I didn't find work easy - I worked in a job with 60-100 work weeks, which I had to give up due to ME and chronic pain, fatigue so severe I couldn't lift my head from the pillow. The difference is that when my work was done, I was done and I could rest as necessary.

Having twins who don't sleep, one with a serious illness, chronic illness myself and no family is one hundred percent harder than any of that, and that was pretty fucking hard. So yes, when I see someone like my friend who has a baby the same age as mine who's been sleeping through for the last 9 months, and is having a night off courtesy of her parents looking after her baby so she can sleep, complain of exhaustion, I do think that. As I say, anyone is welcome to swap for a week to get my point.

Going back to the original AIBU, a work colleague (equivalent of a client) said to me once when I explained I worked part time

“I’d love two days off a week, but someone has to pay the bills”.

I said in response

“I’d love two days off a week but someone has to look after the kids”.

Also some very close friend said when I joked I may bring my newborn 3 day old DS to a mutual friends for dinner (it was only pizza, not a three course cordon blu thing) “but CAN you bring him? I imagine that would be complicated. Best not”. I nearly fucking flipped. First at not getting the joke and second what the hell do they know about babies? (He would have just slept in car seat probably. Newborns are not complicated if they are straightforward babies, iyswim).

And also this is going to sound awful.....but I am totally guilty of THINKING this (not saying out loud....) ..when s friend in the same profession messaged me about a Work dilemma which was rather trivial I thought

“Oh ffs, sort it out yourself, I really don’t care, when you have kids this shit will be insignificant”

Where as pre DCs I would have sympathised with her. Of course I helped her but felt awful for even thinking her problem was less important because she didn’t have children.

Ok, I got to page 5 before I had to ask. The SIL who likes to BF naked....
errrr I'd like to know more about that, please and thank you!

Genuine question for all the parents who say how tough life is (and I do believe you that it's tough.)

With hindsight, if you'd known what life with kids was going to be like, would you still have had them?