Poppy etiquette for Germans

[Fanta4]

Nc but long time member.

I am German. I have lived in the UK pretty much all my adult life (my choice, not circumstance). Every year I have an internal debate about whether I should/ should not wear a poppy. Mindful also that I work in a formal, customer facing environment and don’t have a noticeably German accent.

Pros:
_Good cause I support
_On a personal level, very grateful for the sacrifice, particularly WW2, which my parents vividly and horribly remember
_Feel fully part of British society, my children are British etc

Cons
_Feels strangely disrespectful to wear a poppy when my quite recent ancestors caused so much death and destruction
_I’ve had an elderly neighbour at the door selling poppies who would only sell to my husband, so feelings obvs strong in that generation and I don’t want to offend

So over to you, wise Mnetters. AIBU to wear a poppy?

They could never have seized and maintained power if only a minority agreed with them

I think this is fundamentally untrue. Hitler really wasn't all that popular, initially. What he was was very good at manipulation - he seized power from people with much more political savvy and experience than your average citizen. And once he got a foothold, he consolidated his position and then engineered society so that every aspect of public life was controlled, from birth upwards. This happened for years before the start of ww2.

I honestly don't think normal people stood a chance at resistance. It is easier to resist an invasion than a takeover from within.

Blueberry
Why would Scots take offence at Poppies being worn to remember deaths of British troops? Scots ARE British.

It’s a sign of respect, I think it’s lovely that you wear one. Whoever refused to sell you one should be ashamed of themselves.

[the idea that] there is something inherent in German culture and society that would lead to such horrors and we have to be constantly vigilant otherwise it might happen again.

Well I think there probably was. But what British (etc) people don't like to admit is that it wasn't and isn't particular to Germany. 1930s Europe was widely anti-Semitic, nationalist, right-wing, disablist (eugenics), etc. A perfect storm allowed those feelings to drive the NSDAP into power in 1933 but clusters of the same conditions also existed in the UK, Sweden, etc.

Absolutely we must be constantly vigilant. It's why the new rise of ultra-conservatism is so worrying. Do you think Hitler opened with the Final Solution? Of course not. In the early days it was job creation and education reform and so on. Families had more money in their pockets. Who wouldn't vote for that?

"i have taught my german british dc firmly that the poppy is to remember the fallen soldiers who gave their lives to fight Germany as the German regime was 'bad' a the time."

I'd like to add that we remember our ancestors who were killed in war during Volkstrauertag a day in November (2 weeks before 1st advent) when members of the German armed forces and civilians who died in armed conflicts as well as victims of violent oppression (e.g. those who were killed in the concentration camps).

My maternal and paternal grandparents were against Hitler and found him and his party despicable. My family background has always been internationalist and diverse and I am grateful that there were no keen Nazis in my immediate family, I can imagine that would be a very difficult thing to accept.

Well Good Morning. I am glad my AIBU got a pretty unanimous response. And the discussion around German psyche and guilt in the 1930s IS interesting (I recommend Daniel Goldhagen's "Hitler's willing executioners" for the full blown blame account).

I do agree with the posters who view Remembrance Day as a good time to remind ourselves of how recently and quickly things descended into chaos. I do not equate Brexit with Nazism at all (ludicrous suggestion) but am very aware that someone like Trump, who does not hide his views and is still elected, is only held back from taking the US into the abyss by strong, long-standing democratic institutions, something Weimar Germany did not have.

Commemorating the war dead is a very complicated thing to do here in Germany. I live in Dresden, where there were many deaths during a couple of nights of Allied bombing. Put extremely simply, when you remember the people who died here, that can be seen as saying "But we Germans suffered too", a point which certain groups of people use to justify other atrocities. This results in far-right groups coming to Dresden from all over Germany on the day of commemoration, for right-wing marches. And instead of commemorating the dead in peace, the others protest against the far right.

Just to explain why some people have a complicated relationship with the whole idea of remembering the dead, which is seen as a pretty simple act of respect in the UK.

Germany was very young as an institution in 1939 let alone 1914 - many/most of the decision makers at the time had been born before it existed as a single country. Add in the Versailles clusterfuck* and it's no bloody wonder people fell for nationalism.

• I feel far more inherited guilt about how Germany was carved up in 1919 and 1945-1949 than anything that happened during the wars.

I wear a crocheted poppy and donate separately to the RBL each year. I think they do great work for service families.

ravenmum Wed 08-Nov-17 09:13:04 excellent post

Your neighbour's a rude old twat. I am half German and my grandfather who spent 3 years in various German POW camps at the hands of the nazis welcomed my German mother into the fold completely just 25 years or so after the end of the war.

This is a wonderful story and well worth a read.

www.theguardian.com/football/2017/mar/19/bert-trautmann-new-film-nazi-past-fa-cup-manchester-city

“I re use mine and was interested in making one from the many online knitting or crochet patterns. Therefore remembrance without necessarily supporting TBL”

“Wow, what a disgusting piece you are. So you're giving the outward appearance of 'caring' but won't actually make a charitable donation? well done, you must be proud”

Have you not stopped to think PP that some people might have an ethical objection to The British Legion therefore would not want to donate?

I had a German biology teacher at school. He'd wear a poppy every year and I really respected him for that.

Like pp have said, however, I was taken aback when a friend of mine from Munich moaned about the fact that we still keep going on about the Wars, and shouldn't we forget it by now? Couldn't comprehend his view at all. Thanks to comments on this thread, however, I now understand where this has come from. Thanks.

The British Legion do good work with veterans. In my view, due to the fucked up lack of opportunity working-class kids have in the UK a lot of them join the forces in desperation, only then to get completely abandoned when they are broken into pieces by their experiences in areas of conflict. That's a complete scandal and any organisation that supports these veterans is OK by me.

That's a fascinating article 81.

What stands out for me is

"But he learned to see a different version of the world."

This is what it's all about for me. Trying to not see the world and life in black and white and getting over oneself to see and accept different viewpoints and being flexible, learning and evolving. It's the opposite of being narrow minded.

I agree Jaws.

One thing the article doesn't mention is that when Bert Trautman mentioned how people in Germany were starving after the War, people in Manchester organised collections of food and sent them to Germany. I find that incredibly moving.

This is also more information about him and how kind the miners of St. Helens were to him.

www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/10568890.Bert_Trautmann_had_fond_memories_of_his_time_spent_in_St_Helens/?ref=rss

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41914544

England and Germany to wear black armbands bearing poppies at Wembley

England and Germany players will wear black armbands bearing poppies for Friday's friendly at Wembley. The tribute is in remembrance of members of the armed forces, said the Football Association (FA) and German Football Association (DFB). FA chief executive Martin Glenn called it "a show of solidarity and unity.

This makes me happy and proud.

Like @SecretSpi and @Fanta4 I am also a long-term resident in Germany. Sometimes I wear a poppy and sometimes I don't, I do always donate though.
And yes, @Doobigetta's statement is excellent.

I live very close to a memorial dedicated to all victims of National Socialism, there's currently an exhibition there about the German resistance, so things are moving away from the old era of automatically calculating "German = Nazi".

As for missing out on the Wiesn, my goodness, on that point I am not just integrated, but fully assimilated . Happily. More beer for me!!

Me too Jaws.

I don't care where you're from, wear a poppy if you want to. 😀

I don't understand cricket either. And still don't know all the rules of rugby.

That is very moving 81. Germany was in ruin after the war and its people suffered desperately. It is nice that Manchester recognised that.

I also feel sad that any German person's children would be bullied because of the war. My kids are fascinated by ww2. We have lots of German friends and I always make sure I explain the context and how different things are now.

Flinders I am with you about the beerhalls... I found that post very surprising!